I've FINALLY found him

VVV · Post by **VVV** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:09 am

After 11 years, I've FINALLY found the previous owner of my VVV.
I sent him a message. And if THAT fails, I know where he works & lives

Goddamn I'm good! (j/k)

Skwint · Post by **Skwint** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:10 am

hopefully he gives you some info.

VVV · Post by **VVV** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:14 am

Skwint wrote:hopefully he gives you some info.

Yeah, I hope he's into sharing it. He's a player and a fan of the '80s scene. Maybe he's got the original invoice somewhere too.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:15 am

I'm happy for you Drew !!! Please share with us how you found him and keep us posted on the ongoing story !!!

VVV · Post by **VVV** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:17 am

poserboy71 wrote:I'm happy for you Drew !!! Please share with us how you found him and keep us posted on the ongoing story !!!

I will, thanks Rick!

Post by **Genebaby** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:49 am

Yeah, how did you get those photos? Old school.

Keep us updated.

VVV · Post by **VVV** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:58 am

Genebaby wrote:Yeah, how did you get those photos? Old school.

Keep us updated.

OK, sure.

There was an 2" x 4" service tag in the guitar case. It was from an old, defunct guitar shop. He left it in there and it had his name on it. When he pawned (or sold) it to the broker, they kept it in there. Without that, fuggitaboutit. I searched some years ago with no luck. I just ran the info. today and....VOILA!

Post by **Genebaby** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:08 am

Cool, never knew you had that. I wonder if he's the original owner/guy who ordered it? Will be interesting to know the back story on this one.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:06 am

Cool! Love the old picture of "No Rest for the Wicked" era Ozzy in the background of the 3rd photo! Sign of the times right there!

VVV · Post by **VVV** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:18 am

Thank goodness he didn't wear a huge belt buckle back then!

Looks like those are home photos with friends in the background and not shots taken from live gigs.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:24 am

VVV wrote:Thank goodness he didn't wear a huge belt buckle back then!

You're not wrong there!!!

He was probably as scared as I would be to use it in a live gig!

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:06 pm

the big question is , " Was the strap in the case ? "

Fullshed · Post by **Fullshed** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:47 pm

VVV wrote:After 11 years, I've FINALLY found the previous owner of my VVV.
I sent him a message. And if THAT fails, I know where he works & lives

Goddamn I'm good! (j/k)

What a beauty of a guitar!!!

VVV · Post by **VVV** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:59 am

He's the original owner and said that he might have the original invoice.He ordered it in 1987 from Sapf's in Pennsauken, NJ. It closed its doors in 2000 and morphed into music123.com.

He can't believe he located it after all these years and is glad it's in good hands.

I'll post a pic of the invoice (fingers crossed)

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:17 am

See how stalking pays off ???

VVV · Post by **VVV** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:29 am

poserboy71 wrote:See how stalking pays off ???

Facebook = stalker paradise

Streetbeat · Post by **Streetbeat** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:05 am

tell us more that's fantastic , production numbers ?

VVV · Post by **VVV** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:16 am

Streetbeat wrote:tell us more that's fantastic , production numbers ?

Jacksons? I believe that number to be 5

Pink/Silver in USA
Snakeskin in Scotland (repaint)
Brett's mirror finish in USA
Red/silver one in Australia
Purple/silver with rosewood board in USA

Streetbeat · Post by **Streetbeat** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:19 am

wow ! why they didn't produce more ? i wonder how many of this have Vinnie himself

VVV · Post by **VVV** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:30 am

Streetbeat wrote:wow ! why they didn't produce more ? i wonder how many of this have Vinnie himself

We can only guess. For all we know he used his for kindling on a cold winter's night in TN twenty years ago

Post by **Genebaby** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:23 pm

The Red/Silver one with 24 frets and gold hardware is back in the USA somewhere. It was on Ebay in the 90's in Sydney and was snaped up by a US buyer. I could not beat his offer.

VVV · Post by **VVV** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:32 pm

OK, back in the USA works for me. It would be cool if all of the owners stepped up (including YOU Vinnie)

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:04 am

i agree with Drew. No way were there many more than that made. Some people say a hundred, but no way.
I think VV has two. The student neck one and the silver/purple (that was a respray).

I would say 7 to 10 made total. But more like 7.

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:11 am

As for 'official' DV guitars made (not including TJ Monster guitars) there are

7 Jackson (maybe a few more but doubtful, this includes 2 that belong to VV, I am also still on the fence about the purple one))
1 Carvin (VV owned)
1 Ibanez (VV Owned)
1 Washburn (VV owned)
1 Pear (VV owned)
4 Guitarmageddon (Tom Palecki , VV owned and for sale)

15 TOTAL with VV owning 6 and 4 for sale)

Thats all of them as far as I can make out.

I have no idea about fakes but the Charvel that made the rounds and that magenta one I think is an Ed Roman knock off.
Ed Roman made at least one (the black) but he says more but I have no evidence of that). I think a few body blanks were sold.

I am guessing TJ Monster has made about 10 by now but I don't really know.

VVV · Post by **VVV** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:15 pm

Yeah, I was thinkin' Jacksons only- not the Carvin, Washburn, Ibanez, etc.

If VV has two, that's 7 Jacksons.

And as far as the Paleki's- they could be free of electronics inside as far as anyone knows. Simply just painted shells. And when I look at the "pink" Paleki, it looks more red than anything. Two different tones of gold. Just looking tacky all the way around. I didn't hold one, but since there are no reveiews from NAMM (quite odd) I can also ascertain that there was a reason why no one was able to test one. Did anyone seen one electrified at NAMM

I haven't come across any footage or reviews. Vinnie made such a big deal with the Youtube teaser in the months leading up to it like it was going to be something that could stand up to the originals. Looks like he missed the mark completely, unfortunately. Again, the reason why I think he had to present the models at NAMM was to maintain the mark and shape through the USPTO. If he doesn't show the patent being used in commerce, he loses the rights. One usually has up to 6 months to present a pending product in the marketplace once you've presented, and subsequently been accepted, through the USPTO (barring any opposition through the USPTO Gazette and other litigation.) For that, NAMM served its purpose if for no other.

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:45 pm

Les kero owns the patent and I am certain Tj monster has had the patent to that guitar way longer than les kero.

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:57 pm

To me the Jackson from the late 90s early 2000s are good but I think other than vinnies only 2 or 3 were made in the 80s around the time vv was active. I say 4 or 5 including vinnies Jacksons were made in the 80s.
I nearly had Jackson make one for me in 2001 but I thought the 2500 price tag was too high. Stupid now I think about it. I would have screwed it up as originally I was going for a black flake front and dark silver flake back. Then I was looking at brown flake front with bright Orange flake baCk which was ugly mix that I like.

I do agree the pink is too hot on the guitarmageddon and the purple is not warm enough and is too dark.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:14 pm

There is also the silver/black one Jackson that was pictured in front of an SUV and then in a room! It's here on the board,

http://vvforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=181

As well, forgive if this has been noted but, has anyone noticed the student neck VVV has a quick release lock nut and the Floyd is the Jackson made JT-6 low profile with the fine tuners horizontal at the back as part of the intonation bolt rather than on the top. This would have been a great low profile,fine tuning trem for Vinnie's splayed right hand style. But I guess that with the fine tuners hanging out the back over the "V" it looks a little daggy! Drew's VVV seems to have the regular Schaller made Floyd on it rather than a JT-6.

This also may be the Floyd that is on the Cardiff Hardrock Cafe Rhoads????

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:37 pm

Yeah the silver black. Is that supposed to be a 90s one?

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:24 pm

Drew's VVV does indeed have the Jackson JT6 which puts it at least as an 87, as that's when they were available, and they went on many a US Jackson.

Well spotted on the quick release nut on the Student Rhoads, I could see the JT6 a mile off but never noticed the nut.

VVV · Post by **VVV** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:30 am

Oh yeah! Forgot about that one. So that makes at least 8 Jacksons

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:07 am

The shot with the student neck is from 87

quentin · Post by **quentin** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:13 am

The colbalt violet as well. I have heard, many, many times that Vinnie had several VVV's I still believe it. 1 or 2 may have been resprayed. I do believe that he had 2 silver/ purple V's, and several pink ones. There is no telling what guitars he had cause all there is to go by are pics. Theres no way he had just a small number. Everyone knows he used other guitars on record such as a 12 string. Noone has ever seen pics of the actual guitar, so all you have to guess on is he used a 12 Rickenbacker, Carvin, or A Gibson doubleneck. There is no way he had just a few guitar's. He prob had a favorite if anything, and like most tend to mod, or add to, or change that guitar to his preference. I don't think you can go by just pics for any guitarist in terms of how many guitars they own. With Page, or Slash for example, they have lps they are seen with through their careers. Pages late 50's Lps, and Slash's 87 Lp. Those guys own many, many guitars and there are no pics of their entire guitar collections. So if you went by photos, someone would assume Page had a few lps, as does slash. We all know those guys have rooms that would make any guitar lover jizz in their mind just thinking about it. Same with Ed, he had all kinds of funky guitars, all his fans know he has dozens, but if you go back you will only see a small portion documented. But Ed had 1 guitar he'd like the feel of, and make adjustments to that particular guitar cause he like the way it played. Hence the Frankenstein.

quentin · Post by **quentin** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:23 am

Also you can not go by people only own these because the guitars that are accounted for by the internet. There are probably people who DO have them out there, and don't care about the internet. There are lots of people who own jose marshalls, if you went by owners accounted for online, there would seem like a small number of amps. Any from that age knows Jose did ALOT of amps. People still find them laying around. I think the number I heard for Jackson VVVs were over 20 for sure on the market. Several people probably have one put up, not caring about the internet world.

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:16 am

i am only going on the guitars i have seen. As for VV I believe he has only been photographed with 2 jackson VV's . The student neck that was pink and then covered in gaffers tape. and the one from the first tour that Bobby Rock confirmed was resprayed silver. Then I believe he added that neck pick up that looks to be a poor job actually.

So for me I think its two Jacksons and I have no evidence of more and I can not understand why he wouldn't have broken the others out. But this is just my opinion.

As for what Jackson made in the shop for the general public, I think at least in the 80s Drew is correct. Many many times I have told this story but my dad tried to order one many times over and Jackson wouldn't make one. Carvin also wouldn't make one in '88.

Also a major point, i don't think VV had as many fans as people think wanting to spend 2k on a guitar. . don't forget most of us were teenagers and our parents certainly were not into VV (even 20 year olds could not have got that cash together and very few 30 year olds were into VVI). None of us had the cash to buy something like that as maybe the 30, 40 year olds we are now .. do (if we saved our pennies). I just can not see who would have bought the guitar and to be honest there was very little press about the guitar.. virtually no info about the guitar and to be honest apart from maybe in 1986, very little press, very little tv and radio play and not much in the way of articles about VV. All the guitar players I knew in New Orleans and my cousins in Baltimore and NY knew nothing of the VV model guitar.
Jackson were not promoting it.. Carvin only had it in the catalog after VVI had split up and even Carvin were not that big back in 88, they were just getting there but not a huge name.

I just can not see the kids into vv being able to afford or get there parents to pick up a custom shop VV and even if they could it was damn hard to find the correct guy to make it.

I can see more being made in the late 90s / early 00s when the fans that were kids started to get paying jobs.

I still think its only in the past few years with out medaling around that any kind of info on this guitar has really started to come alive.. my opinion of course.

quentin · Post by **quentin** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:56 pm

Vinnie had gear he didn't take on the road. He experimented with different things in his rig. He seemed to carry out more gear on the first invasion tour in my opinion. I'm one of few who know for a fact for a long time he had 3 marshalls. Vinnie mentioned in a guitar mag he had modded 70's marshalls. I know an amp guy who once opened for V, and looked at these amps. But there are no pics of them, other than 1 saw when I first joined the old forum, and never saw again. The reason noone used Marshalls that were modded live, with Vinnie the marshall he was using live was a jose modded 800. Jose did sloppy work, the amps had be full blast with hot tubes to sound good, then made unwanted noise, and were not dependable for live touring. Some guys here have seen him using a combo at times, and that would have been easier to manage, and not a big loss if stolen like a modded Marshall. With guitars that stayed tuned, and were seen as more for live play. He was always kind of meat, and potatoes with gear, and there really wasn't a need for him to have a lot of gear around like someone like Ed would have.

There are 80s gutiars like the Vandenburg models where a certain number were produced. Drew has one, I used to see them in pawn shop, seen a few online, not all the owners are accounted for, but those guitars are out there somewhere. That's why I say there is a fair chance there are a few Jackson VVV's out there unaccounted for. I would still say there are at least 20. During the 80's people were followers, oh wait they still are! Times haven't changed, but if more people were playing Rhoads than VVV's. People probably went with the Rhoads. Same thing with Randy, fans didn't want the Jackon when it came to Randy at first, they wanted the Polka dot V, or Lp custom. Not the Jackson. If the Rhoads took off in the 80's it's safe to say it's because of Vinnie, and not Randy, and few other bands that played them like Icon, and Wasp. Not to say the Rhoads didn't sell because of Randy. But that's how fans have always been. Like now if someone like Page was around alot more, and was seen with a Parker Fly custom page model (just example). If parker tried to push that, all that's going to do is sell more Lp's, if fair to say Parker would still sell a few guitars. But alot of V's early fanbase were not into Kiss. Someone had to have gone out, and bought one, then like most people they get older sell the guitar never to see or hear from it again. Like the guy that owned the Violet VVV. Heres my point, and case with Jackson. They just don't care to find out anything. They have info on all guitars made for Randy. Noone can tell me they don't have info on they're biggest rarity esp. when it was made just a few years after the Rhoads. And I say if there is info on the Rhoads, there is info on the VVV. Why would the company who first made them not have info? Doesn't make sense, though not completely impossible.

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:54 pm

Yeah, he could have had more. Mark said he didn't have many because he had to pay 2k to Jackson and money.was tight.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:15 pm

I lean to your side Dino on this. I mean, you had no luck even getting one made for you back in 88!

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:39 pm

i know what Q is saying and its a good theory.

I would be surprised that VV had somemore VV's made and decided to lock them away. After all they have more value and appeal if they were photographed and certainly that kind of guitars appeal is to show it off.

As for other sales in the 80s I am still thinking Drews estimate is correct. But it would be a nice surprise if others showed up.

I just don't think the guitar had the appeal due to its price and the market is was geared towards in the 80s.. I think it has more market now that we have grown up and some of us have cash. If the VV model had come out in budget form in the 80s it may have had a market however, but not as a custom shop. I would bet not many VV fans were much over 21 in 86 to 88.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:15 am

Grover told me the reason there is no documentation is because they did things "old school".