The Urban Myths.

[metatron]

I've been hearing for a while about these 'things' Vinnie is capable of doing, but have not seen or heard any evidence to confirm these findings.
The Urban Myths if you will. Want to do a sort of 'Myth Bust' on these things.
First Cab (myth) off the ranks, the whole, Vinnie Vincent is an accomplished Jazz Musician. It's almost like people have a Christmas wish list. I've heard the comments by members of 'How awesome would it be if Vinnie Vincent did a Jazz album.' But, everything I've heard is Rock, or Rock/pop based. Yer there is cool improvisation & great guitar skill, but not Jazz. There a little moments of a sort of Vegas Lounge Act, say it the middle of Love Kills (which are really cool), but not out & out Jazz. By no means am I saying he is not a great guitarist & musician, just don't the what the Jazz it's all about.
And discussion starts NOW!

[doublev2]

I think he is more capable of 70s style fusion jazz. But yeah , we don't know. To me jazz is about a lot of things and sound and taste is the main factor this is why so many great modern jazz players sound bad and cheesy. The old jazz and recording equipment and techniques can not be matched. Sure would like to see vv in a jazz quartet though just to find out.

[Vdog]

I'm not sure his versatility is myth. People from his past have voluntarily commented on his playing of other styles besides rock. I've been a guitar player for around 25 years and know a thing or 2 about musical theory and technical ability and I have to say that based on what I've heard with my own ear pussies, this guy is worlds away from the average rock player. Most people think of is playing in terms of blistering speed, it really does not do him justice as a player. He has that lightning speed for sure, but his knowledge of playing different modes is what really hits me. Some of it is so adventurous you just don't hear anyone else doing it even today. I have no reason to believe he couldn't cut it as a jazz player.

I could always tell who truly knew about guitar playing on the Kissfaq by their opinions on his skills. A highly schooled player even if they don't like him or his style will tell you he's throwing some really maverick stuff in there even on some of the heavy rock stuff.

[metatron]

Cool Vdog. That's the kind of educated opinion I was looking for. People that know their theory. I'm not really a music theory guy. I know heaps about recording equipment & recording techniques, but my music theory isn't that great.
Also value your opinion as I know that you, like I & like any others here appreciate the musical aspects of Vinnie Vincent, the musician, but not the man himself. So what you said is coming from a honest, no bias place.

[1031]

I would say he has the physical ability to play jazz because of his knowledge of music theory and his skill level on the guitar. With that said, I really doubt he has the mind set to play great jazz. Its takes a almost hive mind set to play jazz, all the notes and beat are buzzing around in different directions but all to complete a common task.

So add Vinnie's almost depended need for a constant time signature and predictable percussion runs ( drum machines), his control issues, the notation that he might not be the best musician in the room, and most of those guys are one two take players on a bad day, then accepting that great jazz is perfect imperfection.

I don't think Vinnie could make it though a four hour session with out crying uncontrollably.


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[Possio]

I think it takes more than just knowing jazz chords and its theory to be "bad ass"
Jazz gutarist,...You really have to live and breath (naturally Play) Jazz all the time for it to happen.
I myself (and many many others) can do Misty and all the other Jazz classics but that doesnt "make me" a
real Jazz Cat. just saying. My opinion is that it´s hard to serve too many masters at once.
I think V is far from a Peter Bernstein or the likes, just my opinion.

[1031]

I think it takes more than just knowing jazz chords and its theory to be "bad ass"
Jazz gutarist,...You really have to live and breath (naturally Play) Jazz all the time for it to happen.
I myself (and many many others) can do Misty and all the other Jazz classics but that doesnt "make me" a
real Jazz Cat. just saying. My opinion is that it´s hard to serve too many masters at once.
I think V is far from a Peter Bernstein or the likes, just my opinion.

I think this is true of all styles that's why so few musicians cross styles in a convincing way. He would always be considered that metal guy trying to play jazz. And if you think the fans at kiss faq's are purest's wait till you deal with a Jazz cork sniffer.

[gonnarock]

The reason why I had said that I thought Vinnie could play Jazz was mostly based on his feel for his instrument. I judge guitar players that I like based upon their feel and "soul" that comes through their music. I find that a good feel for their material is what makes a good guitarist great. There has to be a certain 'soul' to the music and this goes beyond any sort of theory or anything like that. If when a guitarist plays I can tell that its not just running through some arpeggios or music structures, but they really feel what they are playing, regardless of their education of the instrument, then I will say they are an excellent guitarist. Some of the best guitarists in my opinion live and breathe their instrument, but haven't had a lesson in their lives or they play in a way that is considered unorthodox.

[doublev2]

yeah. i think we are wondering if he can only copy or if he can really match the jazz greats. We will never know.

[poserboy71]

Judging by his musical chops,I'm sure Vinnie could play jazz. As in all kinds of music , I guess it would depend on the style of jazz where he would shine the best. His chord voicings show that he is more than able to maneuver in any jazz style.

Again, I believe the best and coolest thing Vinnie could do right now to blow minds and get back into the spotlight would be to record at least four different albums in four different styles and release them on the same day. He would land on all of the major guitar publication covers.
I cannot name one guitarist who could do that convincingly besides Vinnie.

He just needs to embrace the image of his 60 year old self.

[gonnarock]

Again, I believe the best and coolest thing Vinnie could do right now to blow minds and get back into the spotlight would be to record at least four different albums in four different styles and release them on the same day. He would land on all of the major guitar publication covers.
I cannot name one guitarist who could do that convincingly besides Vinnie.

That is a really good idea!!! He could completely blow the market away. I think the music industry could use a good shaking now. The music industry is a joke these days. It would take something epic like that from Vinnie to really get it moving again or at least punch a hole in it somehow.

He just needs to embrace the image of his 60 year old self.

And if he won't, I will...

[poserboy71]

Sammy will embrace his buttocks.

[doublev2]

if he put out a record with normal pricing, no tricks like 2 songs per month for 18 months or special signed cd's for $300 , just a normal cd with normal prices and a new picture of him on the cover or back then he could do really well, but if the unthinkable did happen he would have some so called 'clever' idea to sell it for crazy prices and it will go under the radar and no one will but it or it will just be a laughing stock.

[gonnarock]

if he put out a record with normal pricing, no tricks like 2 songs per month for 18 months or special signed cd's for $300 , just a normal cd with normal prices and a new picture of him on the cover or back then he could do really well, but if the unthinkable did happen he would have some so called 'clever' idea to sell it for crazy prices and it will go under the radar and no one will but it or it will just be a laughing stock.

This is right. He has to do it the right way so that people on budgets can get it. The thing about it that is interesting is that if Vinnie does want to make a lot of money on any endeavor; if he would put it at a reasonable price he would actually make more profit than an expensive price. Because more people are willing to buy a product with a better price. Its basic economics, and people who were curious, who might not be fans would buy it, and become fans and it could all grow from there.
I am not good at mathematics, but this sounds about right to me.

[doublev2]

exactly.

[Slayer]

I would say he has the physical ability to play jazz because of his knowledge of music theory and his skill level on the guitar. With that said, I really doubt he has the mind set to play great jazz. Its takes a almost hive mind set to play jazz, all the notes and beat are buzzing around in different directions but all to complete a common task.

So add Vinnie's almost depended need for a constant time signature and predictable percussion runs ( drum machines), his control issues, the notation that he might not be the best musician in the room, and most of those guys are one two take players on a bad day, then accepting that great jazz is perfect imperfection.

I don't think Vinnie could make it though a four hour session with out crying uncontrollably.


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70's Porno Movie Muzack
I'm conjuring up images of some hairy bush women of the seventies polishing some equally hairy nobs to this Jaco song playing in the background. LOL

[doublev2]

something like this

[Slayer]

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[Vdog]

So add Vinnie's almost depended need for a constant time signature and predictable percussion runs ( drum machines),

Well I'm not sure that claim can be made. We've only really hear him in rock/pop settings. Those styles are based on a fairly straight beat.

[metatron]

Sammy will embrace his buttocks.

Not if GonnaRock has her way. Then again GonnaRock will need to get past the Angry, yet Spiritual Gnome under Vinnies bridge, Angel.

[metatron]

70's Porno Movie Muzack
I'm conjuring up images of some hairy bush women of the seventies polishing some equally hairy nobs to this Jaco song playing in the background. LOL

That goes in the VVF's 'Classic Quotes Hall of Fame'

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And is that the beginning of what is refereed to as a 'Tossed Salad' (hold my bacon) that I am witnessing.

[birnie]

He just needs to embrace the image of his 60 year old self.

I think this is a major hurdle for him, with all the old (young) pictures with every promo.
Everyone just wants some fricken music!
Gimme Vinne 60 yrs old playing acoustic, slow, and singing....with passion, i'll eat it up !

alright you pussies, don't tell me you don't love this !
[youtube][/youtube]

Cmon Vin-meister!
I'd (we'd) love to see you old ass, live, singing some lovley old toons (or new)
Get a haircut, have a shave/shower, throw on a tux, grab a whiskey and giddeyup motherfukka !!

[poserboy71]

Fuck yes Birnie !!!! Giddyup!!!!

[gonnarock]

Sammy will embrace his buttocks.

Not if GonnaRock has her way. Then again GonnaRock will need to get past the Angry, yet Spiritual Gnome under Vinnies bridge, Angel.

That is right.
I am not concerned, I have a gnome net. And also mardi gras beads winning powers on my side.

[1031]

So add Vinnie's almost depended need for a constant time signature and predictable percussion runs ( drum machines),

Well I'm not sure that claim can be made. We've only really hear him in rock/pop settings. Those styles are based on a fairly straight beat.

My real point over all is he seems to have to have control of everything in the studio thats why he would try and make drummers match the drum machine tracks. That would never happen in a true jazz recording session.

Now could he do the smooth jazz thing, yes I think this would be his nitch, it's basically pop jazz, lots controlled tempos with great guitar work over them. Plus he could do all the accompanied tracks midi then just wail the guitar.

[PinkWiz]

he probably doesn't have the chops for jazz anymore... but he could do jazz hands in his supposed drag queen wardrobe of today: