Vinnie's Floyds

Post by **Genebaby** » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:41 am

I must have missed this thread for a while, but yeah, the non fine tuning Floyd's that came on the cheaper Kramer guitars were not the same as the ones used by Vinnie and Brad.

I'm still happiest with my Schaller made units.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:50 am

i spoke to Ed Roman about the non fine tuning. He said that Brad likes it because he grabs the end of the bridge and pulls and pushes it without the bar and he can not do that when the fine tuners are place there. not sure how much sense that makes and if thats why vv would also like it. I noticed the Guitarmageddon line of guitars at namm did not have the non fine tuning floyds which had been made available back then. I picked one up too. not sure if they are still for sale

Lars5150 · Post by **Lars5150** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:34 pm

The Guitarmageddon guitars had the Floyd Rose Pro systems wich is more low profile than the regular Floyd. I noticed when Vinnie plays his wrist is where the finetuners are located on a regular floyd so they where probably in the way of his arm. I would love to have Vinnie`s input on this

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:08 am

https://floydrose.com/products/frtnft?v ... 9837632978 this is interesting. i think vv has locking nuts though. but this guy seems to say the tuners get in his way

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:10 am

sorry this link

tukoztukoz · Post by **tukoztukoz** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:58 am

I still wonder if VV used the locking nut

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:55 am

tukoztukoz wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:58 am I still wonder if VV used the locking nut

The answer is YES.
Bill Temple has told stories of unclamping, tuning, then clamping the nut back down.

Post by **Genebaby** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:00 am

This guy Dino? It's only Guthrie Govan, playing his not cheap Charvel model. Lol.

Vinnie and Brad used lock nuts. Using locking tuners with that Floyd is a recent thing.

I've never had issues with the fine tuner location on a regular Floyd, same with millions of others, and the lock nut doesn't get in my way, and I don't want to play with my tuners, mid song. I could use another guitar for that.

A few celeb model guitars have a system like this and it doesn't always work as well for the everyday player compared to a double locking setup.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:10 am

With all this talk about tuners , I will once again share my favorite tuning performance...

Jake E. Lee---Winter 2014--- Cleveland
He finishes a song where he beat the piss out of his guitar.
They start the next tune and he is TOTALLY out of tune. RIDICULOUSLY OUT OF TUNE.
He grabs the guitar by the headstock and body and gives it a jerk, plays a chord... still out of tune but better... Jake grabs the guitar the same way and jerks it again . The guitar went from "NO WAY" to "FUCK YEAH" with two chiropractic tweaks mid-song.
Jake made tuning his bitch that night.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:23 pm

poserboy71 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:10 am With all this talk about tuners , I will once again share my favorite tuning performance...

Jake E. Lee---Winter 2014--- Cleveland
He finishes a song where he beat the piss out of his guitar.
They start the next tune and he is TOTALLY out of tune. RIDICULOUSLY OUT OF TUNE.
He grabs the guitar by the headstock and body and gives it a jerk, plays a chord... still out of tune but better... Jake grabs the guitar the same way and jerks it again . The guitar went from "NO WAY" to "FUCK YEAH" with two chiropractic tweaks mid-song.
Jake made tuning his bitch that night.

LOL - Amazing story

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:19 pm

The fine tuners on a regular Floyd get in my way a bit I’ll admit. Got used to the better placement of the tuners on an Ibanez Edge and even better “out of the way” placement on the Lo Pro Edge. Since Vinnie asked Tom to put the Floyd Pro on the AZG NAMM guitars, I’d wager that Vinnie feels comfortable playing the low profile Floyds.

Yes, cool Jake story. Guess we’ve all heard when a string creaks on the nut and is suddenly in tune. Jake just does it six at a time. lol

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:49 am

I was actually playing guitar last night and thought of this thread.

When I play my hand is nowhere near the fine tuners, or most of the bridge.

My palm rests on the strings just in front of the Floyd, sometimes maybe where the strings are clamped.

So there is a lot of flat space and there could be spikes on the fine tuners and I wouldn't know about it.

I can't imagine muting the strings any other way, as they aren't attached to the fine tuners.

How do you rest your hand Andrew?

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:09 am

Genebaby wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:49 am ...and there could be spikes on the fine tuners and I wouldn't know about it.

...

How do you rest your hand Andrew?

How progressively Kerry King-like of you to spike your instrument. I dont believe he's done so yet.

The Warden Shramgasm rests his hand on pizza boxes and broken dreams. He messages me in the wee hours of the day and we share long distance tears of not only wasted youth but wasted middle age. To the future, Kind Sir, to the future.

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:07 am

Wasted middle age, that's a new one... I like it.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:23 pm

The side of my palm pushes against the “tail” of the Floyd. I wasn’t blessed with sexy fingers like you, Vic. As Trev said once, “They’re not fingers! They’re hammers!”

It’s not hideously uncontrollable or anything and give me a “ball-less” (ooo er) Floyd over any other type of bridge. Though I’ll admit the Petrucci bridge is nice and compact and works very well.

I deny the pizza box statement by Rick......sadly the rest is true!

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:41 am

Vv may have had the fine tuners on the namm guitars because of more appeal to customers. Maybe the non fine tuners could put off some customers.. Or as shram said he maybe OK with it now.

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:27 pm

shramiac wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:23 pm The side of my palm pushes against the “tail” of the Floyd. I wasn’t blessed with sexy fingers like you, Vic. As Trev said once, “They’re not fingers! They’re hammers!”

It’s not hideously uncontrollable or anything and give me a “ball-less” (ooo er) Floyd over any other type of bridge. Though I’ll admit the Petrucci bridge is nice and compact and works very well.

I deny the pizza box statement by Rick......sadly the rest is true!

Have you tried putting your hand forward, towards the neck, so it doesn't touch that area of the bridge?

I played one of my Strat guitars this morning and remembered that on the traditional bridge with the two hex screws to raise or lower the action, they are kind of annoying, the way the stick up. They aren't very friendly against the skin.

I can't believe people have put up with that for such a long time. There are other designs, but Fender still put this type of bridge on Strats today.

Considering I put my palm so far forward the rear of a Floyd is never an issue, but these are, and I have not heard of any complaints.

DarrenD · Post by **DarrenD** » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:22 am

Darren here of the old vintagewashburn.com website and now webmaster of vintagefloydrose.com

I've come across so much lost information regarding Floyds. There is really an interesting backstory to everything.

Anyways, check out the site for those of you who are Floyd fanatics. That being said, I'm here to tell you that Vinnie used a production "FRT-3" Floyd Rose built in Fernandes Japan when Floyd Rose contracted with them (most people don't know Floyd contracted out to Japan). These were made for three years and are built like tanks.

After reading some threads on the stratocaster Frankenstein style guitar he had, it looks like Vinnie had a prototype FRT-3 on it (those don't have a "Floyd Rose" logo on them.

https://www.vintagefloydrose.com/frt-3/

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:09 am

Wow Darren, that site is awesome! I had no idea that Floyds that early had model numbers etc. I'll be reading all over that place!

DarrenD · Post by **DarrenD** » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:16 am

I'll have to add more Vinnie information on the FRT-3 page because now that I look at the Washburn VV, he had a gold FRT-3 on it.

Like Brad Gillis, it seems like Vinnie preferred the non-fine tuners....probably due to his playing style. I have a few of these old Pre-Schaller FRT-3s and they sound great. Now days, you can put them on guitars with locking tuners to get the job done. When you clamp them, they have a tendency to go flat or sharp. If you have a guitar tech, no big deal. Otherwise, there is a reason fine tuners were king 1983 and on (Lol). They are great and different than the ones Kramer released (those were made by Schaller).

They are pretty rare in the states, but you can find them in the Japanese market relatively easy in the $150-300 range, but now collectors have driven the price up for certain old floyds.

On the FRT-3 page, I show a recent pic of Vinnie circa 2019 playing his Carvin....still sporting an FRT-3. I was very surprised by that. I figured he would have taken those things off by now and replaced them. He must have really liked those versions.

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:49 pm

He did like those versions (for some reason) and he had that Carvin made with the FRT-3. Other than the AZG guitars that Tom made Vinnie has never had a guitar built with anything else, he's stuck with the FRT-3 the whole time. I can only imagine he's dealing with the intial clamping issues himself now, no more guitar tech to suffer through that.

DarrenD · Post by **DarrenD** » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:38 am

If the trem is floating, it makes it easier to tune after clamping because you just slightly adjust the springs. I had one on my Frankenstrat clone for a while. It was fun, but I would say the non-fine tuning Floyds are for the "advanced" Floyd users. Once clamped and in tune, they rock!

But after experimenting a few FRT-3s, I feel incredibly sorry for Vinnie's guitar techs over the years. LOL.

Now days, you can get locking tuners and use them pretty easily - they aren't as good as locking nuts (IMO), but far easier to use.

Post by **Genebaby** » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:19 am

Darren, I see now from reading your site that the biggest issue with the non-fine tuning Floyd came after mass production. Apparently the ones Floyd made by hand were not so bad, but the tolerances of the (even very high quality) production models could not compare and they would go out of tune a lot more.

So it may have been more of a non-issue early on and people could live with it, though I'm still not sure how good it was compared to being able to fine tune each string after clamping.

So if Vinnie had an FRT-3, he would have had those issues after clamping, yet still stuck with this unit throughout the 80's.

DarrenD · Post by **DarrenD** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:10 am

Correct, Vinnie had the production FRT-3s. The locking nuts were still pretty solid on them and stayed "close" to tune once clamped, but at times, you have to pretune the string sharp or flat to get it in tune once clamped...not very fun. Again, if it's floating, it's easier because you can adjust the bridge spring tension (but still a pain).

The locking nuts are made of high quality, but you do have to putz around with it to get it right. The handmade's with smaller tolerances were better, but I still think they caused trouble if playing in variable humidity situations.

Now days, I would just use locking tuners with them (not locking nut). Those early Japanese FRT-3 are built like tanks and have a great sound.

I put one on my Frankenstrat copy and notice a better bottom end right away - loved the sound. But every time I picked it up to play, it would be flat or sharp and have to reclamp. I had it on for about four months before I couldn't take it anymore and put on a fine tuning Floyd. But, I couldn't float the bridge on the Frankenstrat clone.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:15 am

In the 1980's I had a few guitars that had similar trems on them but without the locking but. I prefered these over the synchronized trems because of the greater range up and down but without the lock nut at least you could tune as you played...........

I have to have the locking nut and fine tuners now and never understood the logic of Brad Gillis and Vincent Cusano other than if they rest their hand on the bridge and bump the fine tuners.........

Post by **Genebaby** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:45 am

DarrenD wrote:Correct, Vinnie had the production FRT-3s. The locking nuts were still pretty solid on them and stayed "close" to tune once clamped, but at times, you have to pretune the string sharp or flat to get it in tune once clamped...not very fun. Again, if it's floating, it's easier because you can adjust the bridge spring tension (but still a pain).

The locking nuts are made of high quality, but you do have to putz around with it to get it right. The handmade's with smaller tolerances were better, but I still think they caused trouble if playing in variable humidity situations.

Now days, I would just use locking tuners with them (not locking nut). Those early Japanese FRT-3 are built like tanks and have a great sound.

I put one on my Frankenstrat copy and notice a better bottom end right away - loved the sound. But every time I picked it up to play, it would be flat or sharp and have to reclamp. I had it on for about four months before I couldn't take it anymore and put on a fine tuning Floyd. But, I couldn't float the bridge on the Frankenstrat clone.

Cool, I could not stand it myself if there was no fine tuning, but using with locking tuners makes sense, though I think regular people still have trouble with that setup at times.

Post by **Genebaby** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:48 am

Slayer wrote:In the 1980's I had a few guitars that had similar trems on them but without the locking but. I prefered these over the synchronized trems because of the greater range up and down but without the lock nut at least you could tune as you played...........

I have to have the locking nut and fine tuners now and never understood the logic of Brad Gillis and Vincent Cusano other than if they rest their hand on the bridge and bump the fine tuners.........

Oh yeah, a Floyd has much more scope than a synchronised trem, and if you can tune then you are better off than most Fenders, there is just the usual problem at the nut and tuning pegs.

My hand is never near the fine tuners and I learnt to play on tunomatics first!

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:30 pm

Genebaby wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:48 am
Slayer wrote:In the 1980's I had a few guitars that had similar trems on them but without the locking but. I prefered these over the synchronized trems because of the greater range up and down but without the lock nut at least you could tune as you played...........

I have to have the locking nut and fine tuners now and never understood the logic of Brad Gillis and Vincent Cusano other than if they rest their hand on the bridge and bump the fine tuners.........
Oh yeah, a Floyd has much more scope than a synchronised trem, and if you can tune then you are better off than most Fenders, there is just the usual problem at the nut and tuning pegs.

My hand is never near the fine tuners and I learnt to play on tunomatics first!

Yes, spot on brother!

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:56 pm

The turning point for Floyds should have been when the "Pro" was released, followed by the Ibanez Lo-Pro! They are both flat as a pancake and the fine tuners are well out of the way.

http://www.vintagekramer.com/parts6.htm

https://ibanez.fandom.com/wiki/Lo-Pro_Edge

The Floyd Rose Pro I think has always been available since its release? Ibanez pretty much discontinued the Lo-Pro in 2003 but then brought it back in 2010, as seen in the link I posted. Some of the 2019 Ibz Prestige models were released with the Lo-Pro, which is cool. When Tom Paleki (AZG) made Vinnie's NAMM guitars, he wisely used the Floyd Pro rather than an NFT.

I like both the Original Edge and the Lo-Pro over all the Floyds out there. The feel on them is so much lighter and smoother than my genuine Floyds. Only problem with the Edges is that they're made from a dense but pretty soft metal and the saddles will wear down because of your palm after a few years of constant playing. The same would be with the saddles on the Gotoh Floyd (they make the Edges for Ibz), though I've heard they feel great too.

That said, I'd like a guitar with an NFT Floyd but just with a nice lubed up nut and locking tuners, Charvel Guthrie Govan style. I have an Ernie Ball John Petrucci model and it stays in tune fine and the wang flutters if you want. And like the NFT on the Guthrie model, the arm pushes in rather than those crappy collar locks, though a slightly different way!

I hate string ball ends and with the Floyds...cut 'em off and if they break at the saddle, just reuse the same string! But that's my tightarseness showing!

Funnily enough, my first "good guitar" (I still have it) is an '88 Washburn G8-V. HSS EMG Select P/Us, boomerang inlays on a "plastic" fretboard, 3 X mini toggles, a really nice hardcase and..a Washburn stamped Floyd Rose III. Yes, a Floyd Rose III! Not a II, a III.

http://www.vintagekramer.com/parts/Floyd3b.jpg

It sucks ass tbh! LMAO

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:29 am

Such a great post A.K!

DarrenD · Post by **DarrenD** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:33 am

Indeed the Floyd Rose Pro and the Edge's are great trems! I've had them all. The Floyd Rose Pro came out in 1989 and was first seen on the Kramer Proaxe. To me, they should be used on most guitars with 43mm locking nut with or smaller due to the Pros have a smaller string spacing. I guess they never caught on.

I've never played the Floyd Rose II or III, but they seem interesting. They are like a lower quality version of the Fernandes FRT-6.

Lots of great trems to pick from now days.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:10 pm

The FR Pro had narrower string spacing? I did not know that. Good for economy picking I guess?

43mm nut is good though...perfect actually. Any hand can play that spacing, skinny or sausage fingered!

QSano · Post by **QSano** » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:19 pm

They’re making them again. I like them without the locking nut and find them to be my fav modern trem. Def the best sounding imho.

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:45 pm

They would obviously be easier to use with no locking nut and locking tuners, not sure how crazy you can go with that setup. I know Guthrie likes it, but I am not into him so I don't know what he does trem wise. He's probably not holding the guitar by the bar like Mr Vai has done!

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:58 pm

Just had a look over at FR and it states that the German made Pros are the narrow spacing, like the original Pros were back in '89 and the made in Korea ones, the 1000 series, have the same spacing as all the regular FRs.

But we aren't talking acres of difference here!

0.400" (10.1mm) vs 0.42" (10.66mm). So about 0.12" (3mm) narrower over the total width between the E strings.

Wherever they're made, get the push in arm upgrade!

QSano · Post by **QSano** » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:45 am

https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardw ... GUQAvD_BwE

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