Vinnie's Floyds

[Genebaby]

One thing I have always found fascinating is how Vinnie always stuck by his "Original" Original Floyd Rose bridge.

For those not into guitars, the Floyd is the floating bridge which due to it's design of locking the strings at both ends enabled all those flashy guitar widdles of the 80's and beyond.

The first lot of these were different in that they didn't have fine tuners, which you'd normally use to fix any tuning problems once you'd clamped down the strings at the nut.

Fine tuners were added and the design hasn't changed at all since then, save a new model called the Speedloader a few years ago.

I have always wondered why Vinnie stuck by this type of early Floyd bridge, having it on all the guitars I noticed him playing, including the Carvin.

I have since noticed that Brad Gillis from Nightranger is the same, still using the old non fine tuning bridge when the newer model was out.

I love Floyded guitars and don't know how I would go with the original version. I guess you get to be really good at guessing how to tune before clamping so it's in tune still?

Anybody got any ideas on why such guitarists would choose to use these bridges? Anybody ever used one?

[ankh]

Hi, i'l try to get my 2 cents:
The original Floyd was made of steel, later editions were made of different metal mixture, mainly for saving costs.Surfing thru the web, i've read many times how the first ones were better made.

With a careful tuning and lubing the nut(using graphite in the slots, you can also use a pencil), you don't need the fine tuners so much,same about the locking nut.Yngwiew, thru a proper setup,can do many things with the standard Fender bridge.

It's not much, hope this help...

[shramiac]

I'd like a non fine tune floyd on my "dream guitar" and with a graphite nut and locking tuners. I hate string ball ends!!! Cut the bastards off AND easy re-use of a broken string (they usually break at the bridge)! And there is so much more room for your picking hand if there are no fine tuners. That's the reason I think Vinnie used the non fine tuner version, it suited his picking style! Brad Gillis' original red strat had one of the first ones made. Possibly before EVH even got one!

[Lil' Jack Horny]

Sharmiac, as I recall, though I could be wrong, Floyd made two OFR's and gave one to Eddie Van Halen, and the other to Joe Satriani, and I THINK they were among the first to get them, I don't know how Vai or Gillis fit into the picture.

[lerxstcat]

I would guess that with a non-fine tuner Floyd, the emphasis is on having your locking nut set up so it doesn't detune the guitar when it's clamped down after tuning. It's possible that they might be more comfortable with that setup, and perhaps it even stays more stable, since fine tuners could get bumped inadvertently. I personally like having fine tuners but my Floyds are all licensed, though a couple are Schallers.

If you are used to the original form, have spare guitars of something goes wrong, and also have a tech whose job it is to keep all that in shape, then why NOT stick with the non-fine-tuner version? If the think goes out of tune you just hand it off and don't take it back until it's in tune again.

[Lil' Jack Horny]

I used to have an Explorer with a Licensed Floyd, and I hated it. Not just that it was licensed, but that it's a Floyd altogether, and seems to be more maintenance than what it's worth, I think. I like to fool around with alternate tunings, so it was a pain having to reset the Floyd each time. Now I only use tune-o-matic bridges on my guitars, I still like to play Floyds, just not own them :p

[shramiac]

Cool name Lil', Nuno soloing Mega cool! Gillis did get one of the first Floyds in the very early 80's WAY before Satch was known by anyone but his students!

[Lil' Jack Horny]

I figured I probably didn't have my facts straight xP And thanks man, as far as I'm concerned "Pornograffiti" is probably one of the best metal albums.

[shramiac]

I think Pornograffiti may hold a very dubious award as one of the most returned albums in Aussie history! People heard "More than Words" and thought it was a pop album! I can imagine the faces when the guitar kicks in after the piano in "Decadance Dance'!!! LOL. Nuno, very tasty, clean player! Although I have to admit that they're a band I have to be in the mood for to listen to? Great musos, great songs, great production, I just can't explain why they're hard for me to listen to???

[Lil' Jack Horny]

Well I listen to music by season, so it's hair metal and happy music in the spring and summer, and death metal and brutal music in the winter. And here in Seattle it's summer

[teej]

I saw Extreme at Donnington .. they followed Sepultura (whom I dont like but they OWNED the gig) then Pantera .. needless to say Extreme were awefull .. they didnt have their hearts in the gig at all .. 85 000 people and they didnt give a shit .. and to think I got dragged away from the Wildhearts playing the gig of their lives on the 2nd Kerrang stage ...

[Genebaby]

I saw Extreme around 93 and it was great, but it was their own tour in support of 3 Sides.....

Nuno is excellent.

[poserboy71]

At one point,Kramer were putting non-fine tuning Floyd Rose whammy bars on guitars like the Striker. They are cool (I have a few in one of my work boxes) yet I prefer the fine tuners.

---The Poserboy has cometh---

[Genebaby]

I think they were different to this as the Striker was the cheap model wasn't it? They had some Floyd setups on some Kramers that weren't double locking, the only clamped the strings at the nut, not the bridge.

[poserboy71]

I think they were different to this as the Striker was the cheap model wasn't it? They had some Floyd setups on some Kramers that weren't double locking, the only clamped the strings at the nut, not the bridge.

The Striker was the cheap model . I believe that Kramer decided to introduce the non-fine tuning Floyd on that model. The Floyd locked at the nut and the bridge.

[shramiac]

My Washburn G8V has a single locking Floyd. Strings go through the intonation adjusters with the ball still attached! Horrible, horrible feel. Super stiff even after removing a spring! Kept in tune though! I wore the frets out in 2 years then got my first Jem and have barely touched it in 20 years! It's got a great hardcase though. I'd go for a non fine tuner Floyd with a graphite or roller nut and locking tuning pegs.

[poserboy71]

My Washburn G8V has a single locking Floyd. Strings go through the intonation adjusters with the ball still attached! Horrible, horrible feel. Super stiff even after removing a spring! Kept in tune though! I wore the frets out in 2 years then got my first Jem and have barely touched it in 20 years! It's got a great hardcase though. I'd go for a non fine tuner Floyd with a graphite or roller nut and locking tuning pegs.

I believe that was called the FLOYD ROSE 2.

--------PB71------------

[Genebaby]

Yes, confusingly, that was the "original" or "first" Floyd Rose II, until they brought in the Schaller design version and it was also called the Floyd Rose II when available as an "Original" Floyd, or it was a licensed version by Schaller and many guitar companies.

[poserboy71]

I was planning on just GIVING Vinnie my non-fine tuning Floyds the next time we meet. I guess it depends on his kindness and humanity as to WHERE he will receive them.

[Shred4hire]

some of the first non fine tuning floyds were made of stainless steel . i know where there is one that is NOS . probablly could be bought... i never liked them id rather have the locking nut. i have had great luck with ;floyds and the proper maintenence.

on a side note i use to love kahler flyers but now i cant stand them. guess the floyd just sold me on the feel and sound ..

[Shred4hire]

oh and i like schaller floyds the best and gotohs next.. then the ibanez edge trem .. then original floyd roses last

[metatron]

I was planning on just GIVING Vinnie my non-fine tuning Floyds the next time we meet. I guess it depends on his kindness and humanity as to WHERE he will receive them.

Just sell to him for,,,,,oh lets say $8000 & if he wants it posted to him for $14000.
Yer that sounds about the right price.

[Genebaby]

oh and i like schaller floyds the best and gotohs next.. then the ibanez edge trem .. then original floyd roses last

I love Schaller and Orignal Floyds the same. I haven't tried the new Gotoh's, but I know you can't beat German quality.

Don't have much experience with Ibanez guitars so haven't used the Edge trem much if at all.

[Genebaby]

I was planning on just GIVING Vinnie my non-fine tuning Floyds the next time we meet. I guess it depends on his kindness and humanity as to WHERE he will receive them.

Just sell to him for,,,,,oh lets say $8000 & if he wants it posted to him for $14000.
Yer that sounds about the right price.

Only 14K shipped?...That's a great deal right there.....Vinnie can't go wrong....I'd be expecting a call.....

[poserboy71]

Why didn't I just offer that FIRST ? We could've avoided this mess!!!

[Quentin Aaron]

My theory on why he used the big block floyd was because the brass added more sustain to the guitar.

[Genebaby]

I've got big blocks installed in most of my Floyded guitars. Couldn't tell a difference myself but gave it a try.

[Sandimas]

I've got the older big block non fine tuning versions on my two Rhoads, but I don't think the block is brass. It's painted a really dark grey colour but seems to have some corrosion under the paint suggesting it's just steel. Still sounds more full than a German made bridge though.

[doublev]

Interesting. What is the tremolo reb beech uses. He loves them.
I used to use the kahler spyder which is clunky but what I was used to. I also loved the Floyd that came standard on Robin guitars in 1990. Forgot the name. I had a machete made but with the reverse style head stock, not the 3x3 v shaped one that came standard. That had a great neck and loved the trem. I know Tom palecki was at one stage looking at a non fine tuning schaller tremolo for the vv. But not sure if that was going ahead.

[teej]

My theory on why he used the big block floyd was because the brass added more sustain to the guitar.

trust me the guitar has sustain on standard jackson stuff .. yes i know i am a technophobe and dont understand the need to deal with any of this stuff .. my view is string it and play it and find the sweet spots and find something that naturally sustains without adding a turbo charger .. but I assure the std jackson vvv needs nothing in the way of help .. everything works just fine .. it holds tone better than anything i played to date .. something about it resonates and makes beautiful noises but gets very angry when the gain increases .. even on full blown overload it wails like a bastard .. my question is .. to these timy mods make a shit of a difference? to my playing I think not

[Genebaby]

I don't think it matters too much Teej, just turn it up and play!!!!

I changed a bunch of my guitars to big blocks, which is a pain as you have to re-intonate etc but I won't bother doing it anymore.

I like how full my LP sounds, and I like how my floyded guitars sound, no big deal to me.

Dino, Robin were probably putting Schaller Floyds on their guitars at that time. Everyone was using them, Gibson, Charvel, Jackson etc as they would have Schaller make them and they would be logoed with each guitar company.

You can also buy them direct from Schaller with Schaller on them. They are knows as the Floyd Rose II.

There was a Floyd Rose II before these, which confused the issue, that was a crappier, single locking design.

[Quentin Aaron]

I have a brass nut on my lp, it doesn't give any noticeable amount of sustain my opinion at all. The brass nut to me just adds a little more of a brassier tone, a natural favorable good harshness like John Sykes tone. The thing about a brass nut is it has to files for the specific string gauge you use or it buzzes. But when it's set up right its a really nice little inexpensive tone experiment. The original nut on the lp wore out yrs ago from heavy strings, and I put it one just to see it was a Syke's like sound. It gives you that same small charististic his guitar would have. Alot of people don't like brass but its just a flavor some like, and some don't. I personally wouldn't put another brass nut on diff guitar.

I agree with you though Teej if it ain't broke don't fix it lol.

[shramiac]

[quote=
There was a Floyd Rose II before these, which confused the issue, that was a crappier, single locking design.[/quote]

Nasty,nasty Floyds! My old Washburn has a W/burn stamped FRII. Stiffer than Ron Jeremy in his youth! Also if you break a string and you've got no spares, you have to wind the string around the ball to use again. I'd rather lock it at the bridge with no ball thank you very much. If you look at my old w/burn in the photo of my pink & yellow 4x12, you'll see the strings go over the saddle and into the inonation screw!

[doublev]

Ed Roman said Gillis uses the non fine tuning floyds because he can grab them and pull them with his hand.. no idea what he means by that. Roman also said the patent has expired and he is going to cop them . lol

[ankh]

probably he means that he can press or pull on the back of the floyd to achieve some pitch changing, slightly less that when he uses the bar.

About brass, for years the trend was to use it to improve sustain, then the flow went backwards and the general consensu is tha t steel is the best for clarity and sutain.


One of my guitars is a washburn form the 80's, it has the wonderbar.I was criticized because of the brass rollers on it,but the guitar has good sustain and also the trem is very smooth.

[poserboy71]

Those Wonderbars are killer. Now that is a whammy that I wish I had a few of.

[Genebaby]

I love Floyds made by Schaller, especially as they are still made and you can get parts for them.

The JT6 Jackson came up with is not that bad but after 20-25 years they are not in great shape and that's it for them, you need to replace them.

[doublev]

Schaeller made some great pick ups in the 80s too (not very popular). Michael Angelo used the the Nitro OFR record (not that that is one of my favourites) and also Howard leese used them too.

[Genebaby]

Schaller make quality stuff, I'm a fan of their products. Never tried their pickups, I usually stick to SD, EMG, Dimazrio, the usual suspects.

[ankh]

the schaller golden 50 is rumoured to be one of the best sounding PAF replicas.I did read that from many sources.Years ago Michael schenker did make a blind test with different pickups and the schaller sounded the best.

Many floyd were also ghost made by schaller...

On one of my guitars( a neck thru) i've schaller locking tuners and they work great.

[poserboy71]

Was that on the guitar he had that he could pop pickups in and out really quickly with no soldering?

[ankh]

i think it was a guitar with some holes in the back, Gibson has something similar years ago.Anyway,Michael mentioned yeara a go in a interview with guitar World.

If you have a looper you can do something similar

[poserboy71]

I remember that interview. Cool.

[doublev]

yes the schaller golden 50 is amazing. i put it up directly with the dimarzio (paf clone) and i liked it much much more. anyone remember those reflex pickups that jackson guitars bought out?

[Genebaby]

I had some reflex's in a Jackson Soloist Archtop Trem I had. It was a guitar I didn't bond with due to the non-original case, lol.

I sold it, one of two I got rid of. Pickups sounded great. They were from England.

I have a h-s-s set of Ultrasonics still at home that were in a Charvel Model 6 I bought as a project guitar. I have heard good things about them too.

[Possio]

I personally think the quality of the wood (type) and the build/craftsmanship
matters more than the hardware does.
/O

[Quentin Aaron]

I agree, and respectfully disagree. I agree that yes alot of it is in the guitars material. But a guitar is only as good as it's set up. I don't have a guitar with a floyd on it so I can't really speak much on that. But the bridge, and tuners play a very important part of the overall sound. Imagine playing a 5k guitar with cheap tuners, it would be a 5k piece of crap. I'm replacing the hardware on my lp to improve it. Like a tonepros bridge, and sperzel tuners. Vinnie liked Toms guitars cause of how they were setup, and the hardware he used.

[saintandsinner]

those non fine tuning floyds were horrible tome.I had a kramer with on it and it was a nightmare to deal with.No fine tuners so once you lock the nut if you are not set up properly if the guitar was still out of tune I would have to loosen the nuts and retune.they were stiffer than the new floyds and I was always breaking strings.Yuck

[Lars5150]

Hi! The original Floyds that Vinnie and Brad Gillis use/used is/was of a very high quality and also very expensive.
In sweden where i live you had to pay like 400-500 dollar for a Floyd rose with locking nut.
The older locking nuts had much better tolerances and did not slip when you locked the string down and tuning stability was crazy good too.
These Floyds had a slightly different feel too them , tight and Quick and flutters came out very easy.The sustain was also much better due to the Heavy and big steel block.Less moving parts etc.
I rememder seeing Kiss in Stockholm in Nov 1983 (Lick it up tour) and from what i could tell Vinnie used just one guitar for the whole show and he was quite heavy on the Floyd. He probably retuned during the drum solo? Or mabye he had two pink Jackson Rhoads guitars.

I know a lot about Floyd roses i guess!

[shramiac]

Yes, he had 2 pink Rhoads guitars. And may have painted his second gold one pink as well......but lets not get into that here!

I'd like to fit one to my guitars but the NFT Floyd is 3mm wider than a FT one and won't fit in a recessed cavity!

I could fit it to my VVV I guess........