Will Vinnie go back into hiding again?

[Tord13stalk]

Is there any possibility of Vinnie going back into hiding again or is it to late for that now?

[Genebaby]

It's never too late. He's not exactly been "out there" since his come back, you don't see him around, but he has been doing events, even though they aren't really what we wanted.

The future is always there for things to improve, or for Vinnie to climb back inside his shell, but I don't think he wants to do that anymore, he wants to move forward. He'll never be as normal and approachable as other (arguably much bigger) 80's icons, but that's just the way things are.

[Mikelangelo]

Would be great if Vinnie would manage to release some new music. And I mean proper songs of new music.

[shramiac]

That's all we've ever wanted all these years.

[Cowboy]

Would be great if Vinnie would manage to release some new music. And I mean proper songs of new music.

Won't gonna happen

[aeroflott]

I think for as long as he's trying to milk the cashcow dry at the ridiculous pace he's doing so, he will inevitably disappear again.

For example: http://vinnievincent.com/product/vinnie ... tenlyrics/ - these are not even original handwritten lyrics from back in the day right?

And charging $400 for a signed CD. That's a $15 CD signed with a sparkly sharpie.

On what planet does anyone think that this might be sustainable in the long term? It's great to see this stuff being made available, but as a fan, I feel like I'm being gouged and exploited. It really is laughable.

The well will run dry very quickly (if it hasn't already). Add to this all the promises that are not delivered - The Boxset that will clearly never see the light of day. The supposed appearances with "a band" that never happen. Playing live only to a select audience who pay several hundred bucks for the pleasure. Announcing a comical "Creatures Fest" which is so fanciful it's almost laughable (I guarantee that this will be the next disappointment). I could go on.

And all the while writing people out of your own legacy: blacking out VVI member faces on Facebook groups, denouncing Bobby Rock for recounting tales from back in the day, nothing positive to say about former band members, only using 30/40 year old promotional pictures - all this stuff. People start to lose faith, and worse still, make posts like this one expressing their disappointment.

Don't start me off on the level of hysteria and hand-wringing on the Facebook groups.

Its a huge shame - Vinnie's comeback could have been something really special for the fans at large (not just the handful of obsessives who stroke his ego), and probably more importantly, commercially profitable for the man himself.

Could you think of a better band to have been a part of than Kiss, to figure out how to ride on those coat tails? (Proven track record of handing over money year after year). Even as an outlier like Vinnie? It should be a 'slam dunk' surely?

I remain a fan, and of course wish VV well. I watch all this go down, not with a level of excitement and anticipation, but through the eyes of witnessing a long, slow car crash. I remain disappointed. I just don't see how the strategy over the last 2 years or so is going to secure a lasting legacy for him and the fans.

(I'm aware this post probably comes across as a troll rant. Its really not meant to be - I'm just stating it as I see it. I'd LOVE to see V succeed in his efforts).

[aeroflott]

To follow up my post above - Its very easy for us to sit here and throw grenades into the room. We aren't a former guitarist of Kiss, we're idiots sat in front of laptops with an opinion. We haven't been through the courts and got screwed over for our royalties by Uncle Gene. We haven't lived through V's personal tragedies. Basically we just aren't him and have no idea what it must be like to carry a similar history on our shoulders.

By way of adding something positive to the debate, one of the things that I'm amazed that hasn't been explored by Vinnie is some sort of regular subscription thing - a way of giving something to the fans and earn an income from it. The OnlyFans platform provides a way of content creators to receive a regular income to a select audience who are willing to pay a small amount each month for access.

So how about doing something similar? For example:

For $5-$10 a month, you get access to a monthly/weekly/bi-weekly hour long stream (which could even be pre-recorded) where VV gives a general update of what's in the works, maybe answers a few selected fan questions from last month, then deep dives a particular song and the story associated with it. There must be a hundred total - plenty of content to hang the whole thing from.

What might that look like?

We'd just come off the Creatures Tour and I was in my hotel room in NY in June 1983. There was talk of taking the makeup off. The phone rang, it was Paul. I played him a riff which became Exciter. let me show you the early chord structure here on this acoustic guitar. Paul loved it so we added a chorus, which goes like this. Notice how it picks up the same chords but differently. Paul then wrote the words. What's interesting about the solo is I used this diminished scale, and what that does is this. Funny, when we recorded it, Gene had trouble with the bass line, so we went back to his apartment and worked on it until 4.00 am - blah blah blah. Rick Derringer played the outro solo on it - I remember watching him record it. He did a good job. But it doesn't really work as a live song, because..... blah blah blah

I've made all that up, but my point is this is super interesting content that any fan would gladly pay for! No travelling. No meeting fans in person. You're in control. No need to interact live. It's cheap as chips to set up. Logistically easy vs setting up gear at an event, hoping your costs are going to be covered by ticket sales. You can be candid, make a mistake on a song, be loose with your playing, etc. This isn't performing whole songs, just picking out relevant bits (almost learning/trying to remember how it was played as you go - you're taking the viewer with you as you figure it out). And anyway, you've got plenty of time between streams to re-learn the thing and think about what might be interesting for the fans to hear.

And ultimately, you're building up a body of work, that people are going to want to pay for to see - at a REASONABLE COST. It's behind a firewall (a closed platform) that only subscribers can access. And all of it could lead up to the bigger sell - a book, upcoming Creatures Fest, new t shirts, new music, a live event at SIR, signed CDs, Posters, etc etc.

Get a thousand fans contributing $5 a month for that? Hello!

Of course I'm sure its more complicated than that, but it seems to me you've got to start with a solid base of support and engagement, not this boom bust strategy of high priced merch and closed door events, then months of silence - it doesn't build momentum or credibility.

Anyway, just a thought.

[Genebaby]

aeroflott, your posts are great. You, like the rest of us, are a dissapointed fan, knowing how things could be.

I don't however see that it's easy for us behind the keybourd and we've never been in KISS etc.

We can look at not only the many other 80's guitarists/musicians and see what they do as normal human beings to continue their career and with respect for their history and fanbase. Then there is Bruce and Ace, both ex-KISS guitarists who are like the other 80's rock stars, still out there rockin' and not being crazy about it.

Ace toured with Gene in Australia a few years ago and Bruce is on the KISS Kruise right now laying down sets of rightous guitar playing.

There are no excuses for Vinnie, only truths. It was also Vinnie who sued KISS multiple times and kept losing, Gene can't help that. It's also not Gene fault that due to his numerous bankrupcies the court granted royalties from LIU to pay back the costs when Vinnie lost the last time. Viinnie seems to have gotten over this, stating his love for KISS and his time in the band in recent years, so let's call that water under the bridge.

I'm a bit concerned that you mentions Only Fans and $5 a month, knowing Vinnie's history full well.

Do you remember when he took over the last forum? A forum that was hosted for FREE and therefore obviously cost Vinnie nothing to run.

Do you remember him trying to re-launch this free forum with US$500 memberships? Of which not one was sold of course?

Do we really think Vinnie would be on Only Fans at $5 a pop? A sane person would, but you've seen Vinnie's pricing schedule for the last 10 years, there is not much sane about it.

We can always dream though.

[aeroflott]

We can look at not only the many other 80's guitarists/musicians and see what they do as normal human beings to continue their career and with respect for their history and fanbase. Then there is Bruce and Ace, both ex-KISS guitarists who are like the other 80's rock stars, still out there rockin' and not being crazy about it.

Sure, and of course VV out on the road, visiting our towns and playing the festivals, Kiss Expos etc, would be the dream. But it's pretty clear that VV isn't in this place - which is fine of course, but there is an alternative to touring and playing live with all the hassle that comes with it, and that's doing it online. Throw a bone out each month. Build the momentum. Engage with your fans. Keep us wanting more.

It was also Vinnie who sued KISS multiple times and kept losing, Gene can't help that.

Of course. I guess I was referring (and probably making assumptions) to VV's perception of what went down. Whether he was screwed or not is up for debate, but if he feels that he was, that's his reality, which surely affects who he is and what he wants to do in the here and now. How would I feel losing in court against my former bandmates? Shame possibly. Resentment. A sense of not being heard properly? All those things I suspect. This would cloud my world view without doubt.

I'm a bit concerned that you mentions Only Fans and $5 a month, knowing Vinnie's history full well.

Totally, but again, why not put some effort and work into building that up over time, to arrive at a place where you are receiving a solid base income each month, and you wouldn't have to sit wondering why no one is buying t shirts for 50 bucks from your store each month, and then dreaming up another crazy high priced method of earning a buck. Chasing big ticket items month on month is fantasy land. When you build up good will, engagement and trust with your fan base, over a period of time, then you can throw out the big ticket stuff and it will sell.

And you're right, I don't think VV will do any of these things. The question is why? Bad advice? A fear of the unknown? Can't teach an old dog new tricks? Too much of a perfectionist?

Perhaps VV feels he doesn't have the chops any more. The irony is, he doesn't need to have the chops. We've all got older, we get it. I just want to hear the stories behind the songs, and a bit of noodling around on an acoustic. That would be perfectly fine and he could take my money with pleasure every month. New music? I could take it or leave it personally.

As an aside, I watched a John Corabi interview this afternoon - he's such a grounded guy who is grinding out his stuff on a shoestring, and trying to catch a break right now. And I sat there thinking "I just want to throw a couple hundred bucks at this guy". Its like night and day.

[shramiac]

Yes! Great posts, aero.