No respect for the Kiss guitarist's

[1031]

The question was raised on another forum why Kiss gets no respect from a lot of musicians, I proposed the question , why the guitarist's in kiss all who were very good some more than others never got much respect, in or out of kiss or were able to parlay that into success. I think Kulick is really the only one that has worked steady after kiss. But none of them have made independent guitarist success like, Vai, Eric Johnson etc.

So did being in Kiss hurt these guys in the long run?

[PinkWiz]

No, Ace was just lazy and Vinnie fucked his own career. Mark tried different things but like Ace, he too couldn't stay off the drugs and drink enough to stay focused. Ace is Ace but out of them all, there was no reason Vinnie couldn't stay at a level such as Vai after Kiss.

[Portillo]

Frehleys Comet.

[Genebaby]

Vinnie had the most promise and talent, but a fucked up mindset when it came to business and his worth, along with poor people skills.

Damn shame.

[Slayer]

Vinnie had the most promise and talent, but a fucked up mindset when it came to business and his worth, along with poor people skills.

Damn shame.

Yes -Yes

[erg2]

I think it's fairly recognized that Ace was/is very influential...he had success after KISS. He managed to maintain a record deal for several years and put out 4 releases. They didn't sell great, but that's a steady job and kept in the game.

Vinnie only managed 2 releases but had the most potential to achieve more success, but what appears to be greed and self-delusion spoiled his chances.

Mark was just in over his head, IMO. He was a guy that could play, but he wasn't someone who could write and his direction after KISS was pretty poor. C'mon...that lead singer he hooked up with for White Tiger was awful and the album they released sounded like a midwest demo. There was a guy that should've been doing studio work and/or backing musician work, not a prominent member of a world class band. Sorry to say it, but that's my take.

Bruce is the most technically skilled musician of the bunch, I say. Almost too much. I've said it before. He's all technique and no individual style. He is so proficient that it becomes mechanical at times. He's best when working with another creative force...like Paul or Corabi. He is successful now because he works extremely hard and plies his craft and skills well. However, he will never be known as an artistic guitarist.

[1031]

Vinnie with out a doubt had the best shot the gold ring, I give Bruce a lot of respect my self because I know how difficult it is to stay a working musician through out a career.

The other three was pretty much self destruction...

I just thought it was a interesting question due to some people always blaming KISS for everything.

[doublev2]

i think Kiss didn't want the kind of guys who could demand attention. Ace I think does get respect. Vinnie doesn't I don't think. I think with VV it was the glam look. People have a hard time thinking someone who looks like that can play and then also the fact that he didn't put out much material as well as the stupid thing where people think he just plays fast.
Mark St John didn't put out anything to get him credit and he basically signed a contract with Kiss where he had no say and no way to get any writing credits.
Bruce I think got some credit but again he was not really brought in to be a Lynch or Vai. That would not work for kiss as they would have to share the money and fame.

[erg2]

Vinnie definitely had his shot to earn that respect, but damn...talk about doing just about everything wrong.

[jesternjeff]

Some how Bob was left out of this equation, he has had lots of success just not from playing his guitar but, he did become successful by producing !

[KissMyAss]

Frehleys Comet.

WHO DOESN'T RESPECT ACE???

[1031]

Frehleys Comet.

WHO DOESN'T RESPECT ACE???

You just do not find any of the guitarist out of Kiss on any best or greatest guitarist list especially when the list is voted on by other guitarist, check any of the rolling stone lists. It just surprises me that they will list "the edge" who just turns on as much delay as possible and plays rhythm, but has no room for Ace or any one else from Kiss.
Check even the ones that run 100 guitarist's.

I just dont get it.. to me thats no respect

[poserboy71]

You answered you own question when you said ,"Rolling Stone(magazine)" .

[Portillo]

That may be true, but many guitarists on those lists, list Ace as an inspiration, like Dimebag from Pantera and Scott Ian from Anthrax. Both were inspired to pick up the guitar after seeing Kiss.

[mrblitz]

ace could definitely hold his own; and he was a perfect fit for the original lineup.

[doublev2]

Marty freidman as well noted ace as an inspiration.

[metatron]

of course Ace would be an inspiration. Your a kid, you see a Mavel comic book superhero shoot a flying guitar out of the sky. Want more would you want???

[erg2]

You listen to a band over and over enough during your formative years, they are going to influence you in SOME way.

[KissMyAss]

When Rolling Stone plastered Justin Bieber's mug on their cover, they officially lost all credibility as an authority on music.

[KissMyAss]

Pop icon magazine only good for
A) picking up when bored out of your mind at the doctor's office,
and
B) Lining a bird cage.
(And the $0.50 newspaper is better than the glossy paper).

[Portillo]

Marty freidman as well noted ace as an inspiration.

Along with Eddie Van Halen, Kiss' Ace Frehley inspired numerous up-and-coming rockers to pick up the guitar in the 1970s -- and come the '90s, was listed by just about every contemporary rock guitarist (Soundgarden's Kim Thayil, Pearl Jam's Mike McCready, Pantera's Dimebag Darrell, etc.) as an important influence.

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/ace-frehley-mn0000588508

[Slayer]

Marty freidman as well noted ace as an inspiration.

Along with Eddie Van Halen, Kiss' Ace Frehley inspired numerous up-and-coming rockers to pick up the guitar in the 1970s -- and come the '90s, was listed by just about every contemporary rock guitarist (Soundgarden's Kim Thayil, Pearl Jam's Mike McCready, Pantera's Dimebag Darrell, etc.) as an important influence.

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/ace-frehley-mn0000588508

Wow, This website rates Ace Frehley Anomoly at 4.5 out of 5 Stars. These guys must be huge Frehley Fans. I would say that is a very generous rating but to each there own.

[1031]

I know dime was a big Ace- Kiss fan he was buried in a Kiss coffin has kiss ace tattoos .And he was a influence on me as well, as someone said at 14 who can deny the power of the space man's smoking guitar.
Ann I was just giving Rolling stone as a example, I dont take there list's as bible, they with out a doubt have a slanted view.

My personal opinion is that Kiss did hurt the guitarists respect wise, because Kiss has never been noted as a serous musical contributor over all by the critics. And that translated in how serious they were taken after Kiss. And none of them for various reasons " drugs , alcohol, ego, poor biz artist models" never put enough distance between them and Kiss to be taken credible as guitarist on there own. I think each of them had the chops and charisma to do so.
I think a great example of breaking away from the way a band was perceived is Steve Vai. Zappa at the time was this weird band, that used satirical lyrics and the music was ignored by the mass as to busy, sure a few got it and understood what was up. But Vai was able to put that distance between Zappa and create a individual artist persona.
Now noted that after Zappa's death the music got credit from the critics for the genius and difficulty. But while the mass still think of it as a quirky band, people dont say hay thats the guy from zappas band Steve Vai, its always thats "Steve Vai".

Over all Kiss cast's big a shadow for some good others bad but it made it difficult to get that distance and stand as there own. Now none of this detracts from the greatness and unique playing of each, it just mind candy to chew on.

"all opinions are my own no warranty apply with a no refund policy"

[PinkWiz]

Good post 1031. I believe out of all the KISS guitarist Vinnie could've been the only one to leave the KISS name behind. Of course the tag would still linger a bit because KISS was way more mainstream than Zappa so maybe a better comparison would be Steve Vai "former Roth guitarist". Vai can still stand alone without that more mainstream tag. If Vinnie hadn't screwed himself after KISS, I believe he could've been mentioned in the same breath as Vai and other great guitarist with the "former KISS guitarist" tag slowly vanishing over time.

[mrblitz]

yeah, by the time it rolled around, vinnie could have been a regular participant in G3 tours/shows.

[KissMyAss]

Dimebag Darrel. Underrated guitar player.

[Slayer]

Great post 1031!

Yes, I too agree that Dimeback was very talented. I think that fact would be hard for anyone to deny who had actually seen him solo and play a few songs. It is true that many great and recognized players claim Ace to be an influence for them to initially start playing guitar. I would even state in my opinion that in this regard getting people to start playing guitar that Ace Frehley may be the most influencial guitar player of all time.

I will stop there though ..........

Kev

[Portillo]

Dimebag was awesome. A little underrated even, but a great solo and riff artist.

[1031]

Dimebag was awesome. A little underrated even, but a great solo and riff artist.

Not sure he was underrated, he won every guitar contest and shoot out he ever entered. Has been on countless guitar mags, still has his endorsed self designed guitar in production. And is pretty much a house hold name in the metal community, and even guitarist outside metal know who he is. Even today he is still top 10 on any metal best guitarist poll.
His funeral and after party concert was attended by just about every heavy hitter in hard rock and metal.....

Best Dime Bag solos you tube search results.. 48000 Best Vinnie Vincent solos results 7200...

Not saying one is better than the other, only commenting on the if Dime was underrated.


[youtube][/youtube]

[Portillo]

Fair enough.

[KissMyAss]

R.I.P.