Brandvold, Lafon, Sommers-Three Sides Of The Coin

[poserboy71]

[youtube][/youtube]

[Brainsaw]

So what's the readers digest version of this 30 minute thing?

Yes or No?

[poserboy71]

They basically say "NO" within the first few minutes.

[Brainsaw]

Who are those douchebags? Especially the guy in the middle and the guy on the right.

NOTE TO ANYONE ELSE. Don't waste your time!! Total idiots.


at the start they jump from Creatures to then Revenge and start talking about how Revenge was all Bob Ezrin and Eric Singers drumming. It's laughable.

Then bitching because he didn't play like Ace on the COTN tour and he played a 9 minute solo with a bow.

Then they go into Revenge was a great album (not because of Vinnie but because of how they were able to connect with Bob Ezrin).

-they forget Eric Singer drummed some HITS songs. And what a coincidence--KISS was finally back AFTER Vinnie returned.

Something that was there for (Not for KILLERS-- which COTN was all the same except ADD IN VINNIE)
So why didn't Killers have the COTN feel? hmmm
Was there for LIU
Was there kinda for Animalize (and Vinnie had those 5 songs he had ready for that album)

Not there for: Asylum, Crazy Nights, Hits

Not there for: Bob Ezrin produced "God Gave Rock And Roll 2 You II" (early Revenge)

Returned when??? Damn, what a freakin coincidence!!


Then you've got the douchbag on the right who has hated Vinnie from day one still whining about they needed a NY Guitar player etc.

--hey douch! You forget-- Ace wanted to use "Back On The Streets". Peter cut a Vinnie song and bragged all the time they were writing together (even though they weren't) and then later said he had been given Vinnie songs for his project.


Now whining about--you had your pick of all these guitar players--WHY VINNIE. Hell, Vinnie beat out over 200 other people. They blew a fortune of the creatures budget flying in guitar players from all over the US.

Why Vinnie--because he set a tone and direction not only with his playing but his songwriting. He was the bridge between Gene and Paul.

And they have to ask why? Look at the crap albums that came out between when Vinnie was there and when he wasn't? All the albums since LIU pretty much blew up until Revenge and then after Revenge... we've gotten great stuff like Monster or Sonic Shit.


Of course-- here they are again talking about THE ELDER and not mentioning those 4 KILLER songs at all. If you don't mention those 4 songs and how they sound...


NEXT UP-- Vinnie Vincent Invasion 17:00
Disappointed Vinnie didn't sing lead vocals
Invasion-- its sensory overload. You melted my brain. That's not music.
The dick on the right had never even heard Invasion. And they are using that prick as an expert as to if Vinnie saved KISS?!
The dick in the middle had no interest in hearing or seeing Vinnie-- Mitch.

Two a-holes who outright hate Vinnie--- and they are on this podcast?!!! WTF!!
Kinda like having two KKK members discuss Martin Luther Kings accomplishments.


21 minutes Whine whine whine COTN didn't sound like the Dynasty tour


These morons don't even know their KISStory! This is laughable. And the Mitch prick keeps saying--oh the label forced Vinnie on KISS.


Notice that none of them brought up the FACT -- that had KISS not sounded so great with COTN they may not have even got another label deal (after there's was void with Ace gone). They just completely ignore ISStory and the facts.

What happened--COTN great album but people were still listening with their eyes.

And if COTN had sucked and Ace gone. Bye Bye label deal completely.

Some other label probably would have picked them up later but....

Those two albums delivered and showed KISS had the goods. If those albums had sucked-- people would have easily said---they were all hype and makeup and couldn't actually deliver. It was all an illusion.


They claim: Taking The MakeUp saved KISS.

Sure that helped, but again--without being able to deliver after the makeup came off. Bu-Bye!


Mitch the prick who hates Vinnie wants them to bring Kulick back for the 40th?! Kulick! The guy who contributed crap to the band. Geez!!

one D-bag did the KISS crappy website for a time and I don't even know where there other two schumck come from but gee.... pathetic!

Hope their podcast history ends soon. They have no business....doing one.

[doublev2]

Revenge sucked other than heart of chrome and unholy. . Nothing close to creatures. I like killers tunes equal to ceeatures apart from solos.

[doublev2]

Even though I love all solos on cotn the solo on creatures of the night is the best and not from vinnie. I still love you also great solo not from vv.

[doublev2]

Also shames me to say exciter best solo on liu along with all hells breakin.

[doublev2]

Brainsaw do you have any idea why vv didnt play exciter solo?

[poserboy71]

That was Paul trying to teach Vinnie a lesson.

I really believe that Rick Derringer listened to Vinnie's lead and played something close.

[Brainsaw]

That was Paul trying to teach Vinnie a lesson.

I really believe that Rick Derringer listened to Vinnie's lead and played something close.

Wasn't it "Not For The Innocent" solo he got into the big blowup with Gene over? I think it was that song that just made him livid.

N4 or one of em, Gene edited 3 of his different solo takes into one. Gene loved it and Vinnie was ballistic.

[erg2]

Revenge sucked other than heart of chrome and unholy. . Nothing close to creatures. I like killers tunes equal to ceeatures apart from solos.

I always get dog-piled when I express my opinion that I do not think that REVENGE is one of KISS's greatest albums. I think I like it better than you. I'm about 50/50 on it. I feel the whole thing is over-produced and some of the bad songs are REALLY awful. I don't think it holds a candle to CREATURES OF THE NIGHT or LICK IT UP.

[doublev2]

Not for the innocent was peaced together from different solos so I heard

[AceAlive1]

Revenge sucked other than heart of chrome and unholy. . Nothing close to creatures. I like killers tunes equal to ceeatures apart from solos.

I always get dog-piled when I express my opinion that I do not think that REVENGE is one of KISS's greatest albums. I think I like it better than you. I'm about 50/50 on it. I feel the whole thing is over-produced and some of the bad songs are REALLY awful. I don't think it holds a candle to CREATURES OF THE NIGHT or LICK IT UP.

revenge is not one of their best aside from vinnie's writing. its one of those things where people talk it into being and then maybe it takes off.


they had the personnel, just go in there and make creatures 2 and shut up about it.

[AceAlive1]

That was Paul trying to teach Vinnie a lesson.

I really believe that Rick Derringer listened to Vinnie's lead and played something close.

Wasn't it "Not For The Innocent" solo he got into the big blowup with Gene over? I think it was that song that just made him livid.

N4 or one of em, Gene edited 3 of his different solo takes into one. Gene loved it and Vinnie was ballistic.

i can see where vinnie would be mad, but that solo kicks ass the way it was put on the album.

[AceAlive1]

if i may say so.....i lost all respect for brandvold after this shit video right here.


the other two asshats couldnt make a splash in the music industry if the blueprints were fed exed to them.


vinnie woke kiss up, PERIOD.


no matter how much people may whine about him, he was what they needed at the time. and ace tried the straight rock approach(same thing as vinnie) during the elder and they didnt like it.

[AceAlive1]

That was Paul trying to teach Vinnie a lesson.

I really believe that Rick Derringer listened to Vinnie's lead and played something close.

now i see more of the picture about the whole thing with vinnie, im starting to hate paul and thats very hard for me to do.

[Slayer]

I fucking hated this podcast!

I think that in this period of time Kiss was elevated from a pedestrian band with a lead guitarist that really wasn't as technically proficient as their rhythm guitarist to a kick ass fire breathing rock in roll dragon. The very thing that these turd burglars hate about COTN and LIU are the things that I love the most about those albums. KISS were on steroids and the old tired songs had new life with Vinnie's magnificent guitar playing. I will bet right now that none of these rump rangers are musicians because musicians are the folks in general that really appreciate an artist like Vinnie or as they mention in the same breath Yngwie Malmsteen who in my opinion is also great. I don't think that I have seen 3 more ignorant, unknowledgeable knob gobblers in my life!

People can say what they want about some of the decisions that Vinnie has made over the years but to me no one can sensibly talk any shit about his songwriting, guitar playing or singing for that matter.

COTN, LIU, Revenge, Invasion, ASG, GFH and Euphoria all kick serious ass - Period!

Those 3 fags can eat my butt out!

Kev

[1031]

Brainsaw is it possible for to make one post with out calling some an idiot because they don't have the same opinion as you? Do you realize that your acting in the same way you say G&P do and despise ? I am not saying these guys have the same opinion as me or anyone here or that they are super KISS factoid correct, but, you seemed less than interested until some said that they didnt think Vinnie saved KISS.

Here is the deal with Vinnie and the COTN album, there was some great freaking songs on that album, But like me at the time other than insiders did not know Ace was 100% gone or his lack of playing on it. I was 20 when the "I love it loud " video hit and I and most anyone else as a KISS fan thought was "FUCK YES KISS IS BACK ROCKING" and ACE is still there. Most of you were 8 years old to maybe 15 so the impact of siting waiting for KISS to make another great record was not the same. No one thought or cared to find out if "Vinnie Vincent" was on the record.
So while his song writing did make a impact weather people knew it was him or not, the playing did not. It was easily believable it was ACE playing to the general listener and age group of a KISS fan at the time.

So I will agree that his writing made KISS fans stand up and take notice again, and gave the KISS machine a huge shot in the arm, playing wise no one truly noticed or cared as long as ACE was there. And as much as I think Vinnies a killer player with a whole different approach to playing, and made the songs better it was always purposely dumbed down by G&P to fit the KISS mold. So his impact was always in the songs, and I believe that impact would have been the same if he never left the studio and more than likely would have been a lot longer if he never put on the ANHK paint.

[metatron]

I fucking hated this podcast!

I think that in this period of time Kiss was elevated from a pedestrian band with a lead guitarist that really wasn't as technically proficient as their rhythm guitarist to a kick ass fire breathing rock in roll dragon. The very thing that these turd burglars hate about COTN and LIU are the things that I love the most about those albums. KISS were on steroids and the old tired songs had new life with Vinnie's magnificent guitar playing. I will bet right now that none of these rump rangers are musicians because musicians are the folks in general that really appreciate an artist like Vinnie or as they mention in the same breath Yngwie Malmsteen who in my opinion is also great. I don't think that I have seen 3 more ignorant, unknowledgeable knob gobblers in my life!

People can say what they want about some of the decisions that Vinnie has made over the years but to me no one can sensibly talk any shit about his songwriting, guitar playing or singing for that matter.

COTN, LIU, Revenge, Invasion, ASG, GFH and Euphoria all kick serious ass - Period!

Those 3 fags can eat my butt out!

Kev

My Exact feeling brother Kev. & from this we can say that at least we, we'll the majority of us who have replied to this post, pretty much agree with Brainsaw. Good we are all getting some happy middle ground here. & with all due respect to 1031, those Podcast VeeJays are fucken turds. They have not idea what the fans want. Fuck yer, I want a VV book & I want it hardcore...even if it is outrageously & blatantly slanted VV ways. All the other books are slanted in the writer favor. VV write the book, get it into the system & NUKE IT! baby, NUKE IT!

[Slayer]

As always great points Dannii!

The book would absolutely be interesting even if it was exactly like you say - outrageously slanted in Vinnie's Favor. The reality is that what Vinnie believes to be true is in fact reality to him. I have always been interested in what Vinnie believed to be reality even if I may not agree with everything that Vinnie might say. Hell, some of us are good friends here but that doesn't mean that we agree with everything that anybody says or thinks. What is important is mutual respect and acknowledgment of a persons contributions. Our friend 1031 made some good points and I respect him however I feel that right before the COTN time period Kiss had become very uncool for their image but also their music. The old song's were reinvigorated and we have to look no farther than Dr. Love performed at Rio. This was always to me a slow moody average played song but add Vinnie to the equation with the faster increased tempo and this tired song suddenly kicked serrious ass and Kiss were cool again to the folks that were musicians and attending the concerts. 1031 is absolutely correct to the average Kiss Fan no one knew that Ace was gone at the time but to the musician Kiss Fan you had to listen no further than the songs COTN, Keep Me Coming, Danger, I Still Love You, Killer and War Machine and you would sense and know immediately that Ace wasn't and sadly still isn't a proficient enough guitar player to play these songs. I know there are a lot of Ace Fans here and I really don't wish to be offensive and slag him all the time as he even to me is an iconic celebrated entertainer but he isn't and has never been a good guitarist. As evidence of this fact Kiss never played any songs that were ever originally recorded by any of the better players that originally followed him during the reunion and farewell tours with the exception of Lick it Up and Heaven's On Fire and guess what? These two songs are amusing simple to play and were performed similar to their studio versions that both have no guitar solo's in them.

If you doubt that Kiss were musically performing at a higher level that ever before listen to the studio or Alive 2 version of Doctor Love and then listen to this version. Those that know me realize that I call Vinnie out on his shit without question but to be balanced it would be ignorant not to like wise give him all the credit for his musical achievements while understanding that his over the top style is definitely not for everyone.

[youtube][/youtube]

[metatron]

See, it's statements like Kevin's that prove this is not a Hate Forum. Kevin is proof of this this, cause he is one of the people who have been stitched by VV, but he points the facts out for what they really are. Some facts make Vinnie shine in brilliant highlights & some of the facts present Vinnie in his deepest shadows.

[Slayer]

That was Paul trying to teach Vinnie a lesson.

I really believe that Rick Derringer listened to Vinnie's lead and played something close.

Wasn't it "Not For The Innocent" solo he got into the big blowup with Gene over? I think it was that song that just made him livid.

N4 or one of em, Gene edited 3 of his different solo takes into one. Gene loved it and Vinnie was ballistic.

i can see where vinnie would be mad, but that solo kicks ass the way it was put on the album.

I totally agree with this statement! I don't care if 10 solo's were spliced together the album version solo for Not For The Innocent kicks ass!

[Brainsaw]

if i may say so.....i lost all respect for brandvold after this shit video right here.


the other two asshats couldnt make a splash in the music industry if the blueprints were fed exed to them.


vinnie woke kiss up, PERIOD.


no matter how much people may whine about him, he was what they needed at the time. and ace tried the straight rock approach(same thing as vinnie) during the elder and they didnt like it.

Great post! Although, I always thought the KISS website stunk when he did it so...

[Brainsaw]

I fucking hated this podcast!

I think that in this period of time Kiss was elevated from a pedestrian band with a lead guitarist that really wasn't as technically proficient as their rhythm guitarist to a kick ass fire breathing rock in roll dragon. The very thing that these turd burglars hate about COTN and LIU are the things that I love the most about those albums. KISS were on steroids and the old tired songs had new life with Vinnie's magnificent guitar playing. I will bet right now that none of these rump rangers are musicians because musicians are the folks in general that really appreciate an artist like Vinnie or as they mention in the same breath Yngwie Malmsteen who in my opinion is also great. I don't think that I have seen 3 more ignorant, unknowledgeable knob gobblers in my life!

People can say what they want about some of the decisions that Vinnie has made over the years but to me no one can sensibly talk any shit about his songwriting, guitar playing or singing for that matter.

COTN, LIU, Revenge, Invasion, ASG, GFH and Euphoria all kick serious ass - Period!

Those 3 fags can eat my butt out!

Kev

Preach it!

[Brainsaw]

Brainsaw is it possible for to make one post with out calling some an idiot because they don't have the same opinion as you? Do you realize that your acting in the same way you say G&P do and despise ? I am not saying these guys have the same opinion as me or anyone here or that they are super KISS factoid correct, but, you seemed less than interested until some said that they didnt think Vinnie saved KISS.

Here is the deal with Vinnie and the COTN album, there was some great freaking songs on that album, But like me at the time other than insiders did not know Ace was 100% gone or his lack of playing on it. I was 20 when the "I love it loud " video hit and I and most anyone else as a KISS fan thought was "FUCK YES KISS IS BACK ROCKING" and ACE is still there. Most of you were 8 years old to maybe 15 so the impact of siting waiting for KISS to make another great record was not the same. No one thought or cared to find out if "Vinnie Vincent" was on the record.
So while his song writing did make a impact weather people knew it was him or not, the playing did not. It was easily believable it was ACE playing to the general listener and age group of a KISS fan at the time.

So I will agree that his writing made KISS fans stand up and take notice again, and gave the KISS machine a huge shot in the arm, playing wise no one truly noticed or cared as long as ACE was there. And as much as I think Vinnies a killer player with a whole different approach to playing, and made the songs better it was always purposely dumbed down by G&P to fit the KISS mold. So his impact was always in the songs, and I believe that impact would have been the same if he never left the studio and more than likely would have been a lot longer if he never put on the ANHK paint.

The reason I can't stand them or their pathetic podcast is because they didn't even try. What was their point? Did they make any legitimate arguments that he did? If there's going to be a debate on a subject like that then debate it. But since non of them liked Vinnie--screw it.

As the album sales fell from 1977 to 1980 and then off the cliff with "The Elder" Ace was there. How many die-hards were there left in 1981 in the US? Maybe 150,000? The ones who purchased The Elder. And some of them wouldn't even know how bad it was until after they purchased it.

So realistically--how many of those 150,000 that got screwed on "The Elder" would want to rush out and buy another KISS album and get burned?

Most of the times (albums sell or don't) based upon the past one. If the people who bought Unmasked weren't happy with it--they wouldn't rush out and buy "The Elder" and the ones who got screwed on "The Elder" then--its going to bleed over for their next one.

So after all the damage lets say 100,000 might have liked "The Elder" Probably being generous. So really, at that point, it really didn't matter much what some of the fans thought about Ace, I loved him but I knew that didn't sound like him on "Creatures".

And we know Ace couldn't have fought with them and got songs on Creatures or changed the musical direction. Ace was worn out. He was tired of fighting with them.


Why isn't that discussed in the podcast? Instead they are whining because Ace isn't there. Well thank Gene and Paul for that.


And then they forget Vinnie got a record deal before Ace did.

Vinnie's debut outsold Ace's.

Vinnie's debut lasted on Billboard 29 weeks to Ace's 26.


Even with Ace being back in the spotlight from the reunion tours etc. Look at the soundscan sales from their first two albums each. They are neck and neck. Ace has a slight 1,000 lead. But Ace was back big and fresh with the reunion.


And then look how easily they dismiss him coming in on Revenge. It's Bob Ezrin--not Vinnie.


I don't know why they'd call it three sides of the coin--because it was all a one sided argument. We hate Vinnie---of course he didn't save KISS.

[Brainsaw]

As always great points Dannii!

The book would absolutely be interesting even if it was exactly like you say - outrageously slanted in Vinnie's Favor. The reality is that what Vinnie believes to be true is in fact reality to him. I have always been interested in what Vinnie believed to be reality even if I may not agree with everything that Vinnie might say. Hell, some of us are good friends here but that doesn't mean that we agree with everything that anybody says or thinks. What is important is mutual respect and acknowledgment of a persons contributions. Our friend 1031 made some good points and I respect him however I feel that right before the COTN time period Kiss had become very uncool for their image but also their music. The old song's were reinvigorated and we have to look no farther than Dr. Love performed at Rio. This was always to me a slow moody average played song but add Vinnie to the equation with the faster increased tempo and this tired song suddenly kicked serrious ass and Kiss were cool again to the folks that were musicians and attending the concerts. 1031 is absolutely correct to the average Kiss Fan no one knew that Ace was gone at the time but to the musician Kiss Fan you had to listen no further than the songs COTN, Keep Me Coming, Danger, I Still Love You, Killer and War Machine and you would sense and know immediately that Ace wasn't and sadly still isn't a proficient enough guitar player to play these songs. I know there are a lot of Ace Fans here and I really don't wish to be offensive and slag him all the time as he even to me is an iconic celebrated entertainer but he isn't and has never been a good guitarist. As evidence of this fact Kiss never played any songs that were ever originally recorded by any of the better players that originally followed him during the reunion and farewell tours with the exception of Lick it Up and Heaven's On Fire and guess what? These two songs are amusing simple to play and were performed similar to their studio versions that both have no guitar solo's in them.

If you doubt that Kiss were musically performing at a higher level that ever before listen to the studio or Alive 2 version of Doctor Love and then listen to this version. Those that know me realize that I call Vinnie out on his shit without question but to be balanced it would be ignorant not to like wise give him all the credit for his musical achievements while understanding that his over the top style is definitely not for everyone.

[youtube][/youtube]

All great points. And you're right. Kiss was so low back in 81-82 if you wore a KISS shirt....you were lucky if you didn't get your ass kicked. They had become a cartoon joke.

And as much as I love Ace and Peter-- the band never sounded better than they did with Eric Carr and Vinnie. That was KISS turbo charged. They had balls. You nailed it with the "Calling Dr. Love" example from Rio.


And after Vinnie left KISS-- which did some of you prefer seeing live?

If on the same night --you were offered free tickets to see KISS (with Kulick) or Frehleys Comet which would you have rather gone and seen?

Or which did you have more fun at...seeing KISS in a 1/2 filled arena with Bruce or Ace in a club or theater?

[doublev2]

sorry man but wearing a lick it up shirt also would get your ass kicked as it happened to me.

[KissMyAss]

Brainsaw is it possible for to make one post with out calling some an idiot because they don't have the same opinion as you?

No. People who don't have anything of substance to add to the subject, bully other people.

[1031]

Ya there popularity, was very low at the time. There is no doubt Vinnie made a very large impact for that band. I avoid the " Vinnie saved kiss" statements because in all reality we don't know what would have been if he didn't help write on that album. But I will say more than likely KISS could not have survived another dud. But on the other hand G&P must be given credit for keeping that band afloat despite poor sales, so who knows what they might have come up with. But I am glad Vinnie came when he did.

[Brainsaw]

Ya there popularity, was very low at the time. There is no doubt Vinnie made a very large impact for that band. I avoid the " Vinnie saved kiss" statements because in all reality we don't know what would have been if he didn't help write on that album.

We've got a pretty damn good idea. We can look at Killers. We can look at all the dreck they released after he was gone. We can look at what happened with Revenge.

[poserboy71]

Ya there popularity, was very low at the time. There is no doubt Vinnie made a very large impact for that band. I avoid the " Vinnie saved kiss" statements because in all reality we don't know what would have been if he didn't help write on that album.

We've got a pretty damn good idea. We can look at Killers. We can look at all the dreck they released after he was gone. We can look at what happened with Revenge.

Amen.

[Slayer]

Ya there popularity, was very low at the time. There is no doubt Vinnie made a very large impact for that band. I avoid the " Vinnie saved kiss" statements because in all reality we don't know what would have been if he didn't help write on that album. But I will say more than likely KISS could not have survived another dud. But on the other hand G&P must be given credit for keeping that band afloat despite poor sales, so who knows what they might have come up with. But I am glad Vinnie came when he did.

Great post and Merry Christmas Brother!

[Slayer]

Ya there popularity, was very low at the time. There is no doubt Vinnie made a very large impact for that band. I avoid the " Vinnie saved kiss" statements because in all reality we don't know what would have been if he didn't help write on that album.

We've got a pretty damn good idea. We can look at Killers. We can look at all the dreck they released after he was gone. We can look at what happened with Revenge.

Amen.

Brainsaw I think your spot on this one!

Merry Christmas!

Kev

[TheGoodDr]

To blindingly suggest that Vinnie Vincent 'saved' KISS is pure nonsense and is really just a fanaticism dreamt up by fan-boys (and gals) who have an endearing liking for Vinnie. From my perspective KISS were never dead to begin with. Sure, by the time 1982 rolled around the vast majority of the public had turned off the band, but Vinnie's involvement with COTN didn't blast them back into the stratosphere. Whilst a lot of songs on both COTN and LIU are solid, NONE of these songs brought KISS back to public spotlight in a way comparable to what they experienced in the 70's.

As much as many of you here hate to accept, the removing of the make-up was what re-kindled the interest in KISS in 1983. The fact that LIU as a single was a catchy tune is irrelvant, because in the golden-age of the music video, it is what people viewed that mattered the most. Removing the make-up was the only way KISS could 'up the ante' in an effort to reclaim an audience. I've no doubts that if KISS remained in make up when LIU was released, this album too would have been largely ignored (as was the tour for this record).

And as much as certain persons here bang on about how crap KISS' tunes were for the majority of the 80's, the bottom line is, they continued to put out new records and tour in support of them. The glory days were well and truly behind them but like their most recent release Monster, at least they still gave their fans product to listen to. And no one here can deny that on pretty much EVERY KISS album released, there is at least ONE or TWO songs that they like. And for me, that is how I measure a good album......the more songs I like, the better it is. If it turns out I only like ONE song on the record, I still think my money was well spent because fuck, I've got this one song to listen to. And as someone who grew up on listening to KISS during the 80's at least I knew every couple of years I'd be hearing something new.....and as a teenager, there's nothing like the anticipation of getting home with a new record in hand, desperate to get in on the turn-table.

Want to know what saved KISS in the 80's here in Australia? Crazy Nights! This album was fucking HUGE in this country as was the follow-up, Smashes, Thrashes and Hits. I remember almost everyone at my high school at least KNOWING of Crazy Nights and those that had it were pretty much unanimous in declaring that there wasn't a single bad song on this record.

For Brainsaw to get on here and rip off all these stats about ASG is bemusing......it proves nothing. In fact, what it does show us is what a talentless musician Vinnie Vincent has turned out to be. Has it ever occurred to anyone here that the reason that Vinnie hasn't released any material for over 20 years is because he can't write music anymore? For someone whom a lot of you here claim to be a maestro, he really doesn't have much to his repertoire. And the bottom line is, do we even know the extent of his involvement with the songs he did write for KISS? An associate of mine has a working relationship with KISS and in discussions I've had with him re: Vinnie Vincent, he mentioned that in some instances, Vinnie was such a ball-breaker during the writing process, that G&P gave him writing credits for songs in which he simply contributed lyrics to!

And let me tell you, there are some crap songs on LIU! On the 8th Day, Young and Wasted, Dance all over your Face are just awful IMO. And guess what? This is MY opinion and like most things in life, music is subjective. To say Vinnie Vincent is a musical genius is both laughable and tragic. As much as I can listen to his debut album, there would be 99 out of 100 people whom would turn this record off after ten minutes if I lent it to them. And as often as I would have listened to ASG as a teenager, some 25 years later apart from Ashes to Ashes, I can't recall a single other tune from this record........it is just totally forgettable.

You know what saved KISS......CIRCUMSTANCE! Simply having music in the market as often as possible at any give period of time is a recipe for success. Going into seclusion, living on past glories and having fans rattle off meaningless statistics from 25 years ago is sure-fire way to oblivion. Vinnie Vincent did not save KISS because KISS were never ever going to disappear completely from the public light. To say Revenge was a great album because of three songs is a fucking joke. The death of Eric Carr has a LOT to do with why this record is deemed a “return to form”. For a LOT of KISS fans, to hear what KISS sounded like with a new drummer is what made them buy this record. Not some bullshit notion that Vinnie Vincent had co-written some songs (and let me tell you Heart of Chrome is a god awful song that I skip pretty much every time I listen to this record). Heck, I didn’t even know Vinnie was involved until a read the footnotes…….and god damn, it sure as hell didn’t make me think……”Man, Vinnie Vincent is the shizz because he wrote three of the songs on Revenge”!

Vinnie Vincent has written a couple of catchy tunes in his time and could shred like no one else. But that my friends in the extent of what this man is and was…….someone who wrote only a COUPLE of catchy tunes and as a solo artist could play the guitar in a style that the vast majority of the public couldn’t stand. The ONLY reason Vinnie Vincent sold records as a solo artist was because some KISS fans had a splinter of interest. For some of you, this interest was based on the talent he once displayed.

Merry Xmas to you all!

[AceAlive1]

if i may say so.....i lost all respect for brandvold after this shit video right here.


the other two asshats couldnt make a splash in the music industry if the blueprints were fed exed to them.


vinnie woke kiss up, PERIOD.


no matter how much people may whine about him, he was what they needed at the time. and ace tried the straight rock approach(same thing as vinnie) during the elder and they didnt like it.

Great post! Although, I always thought the KISS website stunk when he did it so...

i was in high school then

[Brainsaw]

To blindingly suggest that Vinnie Vincent 'saved' KISS is pure nonsense and is really just a fanaticism dreamt up by fan-boys (and gals) who have an endearing liking for Vinnie. From my perspective KISS were never dead to begin with.

Of course not. You're from Australia. KISS was able to tour there in 1980 and it was a big deal.

But, we aren't talking about what KISS did in Australia and it's impact. The question is whether he saved the band and that means the US.

Sure, by the time 1982 rolled around the vast majority of the public had turned off the band, but Vinnie's involvement with COTN didn't blast them back into the stratosphere. Whilst a lot of songs on both COTN and LIU are solid, NONE of these songs brought KISS back to public spotlight in a way comparable to what they experienced in the 70's.

After the damage KISS had done to the name/brand over 5 years of putting out crap product, you expected them to be back as big as ever after one or two albums?

As much as many of you here hate to accept, the removing of the make-up was what re-kindled the interest in KISS in 1983.

No, removing the makeup gave people an opportunity to listen to them again. That's all it did.

Had LIU not been in the top albums in numerous polls in 1983 and with headlines saying, VINNIE VINCENT SAVED KISS and other things. KISS wouldn't have been around.

And as much as certain persons here bang on about how crap KISS' tunes were for the majority of the 80's, the bottom line is, they continued to put out new records and tour in support of them.

After Vinnie saved them, they did. Don't forget-Animalize Shipped platinum. Why--because KISS was back. The success of Lick It Up made that possible.

Then what happened? Animalize was a weak-unfocused album. Asylum was even worse. All Asylum could do is ship Gold. To this day its not platinum. In fact, 3 or the 4 Kulick albums (during his time) are Gold and not platinum. Kiss went down after Vinnie left. They couldn't maintain the focused songwriting. They couldn't maintain the sound. They were lost and directionless.

Had Vinnie stayed with KISS for Animalize--the 5 songs that were already intended for Animalize (Boyz Are Gonna Rock, No Substitute, Animal, Twisted, Shoot You Full Of Love".

Animalize already shipped platinum (because of the strength of LIU). With those Vinnie tunes--that would have taken KISS back to multi-platinum success. There's no doubt in my mind. They could have released ALIVE III after that tour.

KISS musically was at its strongest.

The glory days were well and truly behind them but like their most recent release Monster, at least they still gave their fans product to listen to.

They gave KISS fans product in the mid to late 80's too. It was weak--the songwriting stunk. Those songs will be forgotten in no time. None of them will probably be in the concert setlist 2 tours from now.

Want to know what saved KISS in the 80's here in Australia? Crazy Nights!

Too bad Australia doesn't matter much at all. In reality, Crazy Nights was the "2 year plan" that failed. Read KISS and SELL.

They couldn't tour etc for 2 years. They had to pay Nevison a fortune. And what did it get them? Crazy Crazy Nights was a horrible first single. Reason To Live got played to death but no huge sales for the album. How quickly was Reason To Live dropped from the concert setlist?

Crazy Crazy Nights was played on the "HITS" tour and then it went bye bye. So much for that great album.


WHERE IS ANYTHING FROM ASYLUM, CRAZY NIGHTS or HITS on ALIVE III??!! WHERE??!!

I see 5 Vinnie VIncent songs on Alive III!

Obviously, KISS knew that time period of Asylum--Hits pretty much blew ****! That's one reason why Bruce is so jealous. His albums during that time period SUCKED and don't matter.


Tracklist:
1. Creatures of the Night
2. Deuce
3. I Just Wanna
4. Unholy
5. Heaven's On Fire
6. Watchin You
7. Domino
8. I Was Made For Lovin You
9. I Still Love You
10. Rock and Roll All Night
11. Lick It Up
12. Forever
13. I Love It Loud
14. Detroit Rock City
15. God Gave Rock N Roll To You II
16. Star Spangled Banner

Has it ever occurred to anyone here that the reason that Vinnie hasn't released any material for over 20 years is because he can't write music anymore?

Uh no... because he had more than enough great stuff from the past to release. Guitars From Hell could be broked up into 2 albums by themselves. Not to mention he could put out other songs like Youngblood etc that have never been released.

So no, you might want to try again.

And let me tell you, there are some crap songs on LIU! On the 8th Day, Young and Wasted, Dance all over your Face are just awful IMO.

Dance was a Gene song by himself. "Young and Wasted" was played on LIU Tour & Animalize tour. And On The 8th Day should have been played live.

But hey, I can see you not liking quality music --when you love a forgotten album like Crazy Nights.

You know what saved KISS......CIRCUMSTANCE! Simply having music in the market as often as possible at any give period of time is a recipe for success. [/quality]

SURE THING

Vinnie Vincent did not save KISS because KISS were never ever going to disappear completely from the public light. [/quote]

Oh they pretty much did after "The Elder". Pretty bad when they sucked so bad, they couldn't tour in the US for two straight albums. So yeah, they almost did disappear.

To say Revenge was a great album because of three songs is a fucking joke.

Of course, its not because of just that (even though they recorded far more than that--like on COTN) but its because he gave them their sound back. Just like he did with COTN. They went from sounding like crap with those songs on KILLERS to having balls. And that's what brought them back on Revenge.


But of course.... I could see how someone who liked the "forgotten period" would not appreciate Vinnie's accomplishments. Heck, you probably waste your money seeing the current KISS lineup.

[mrblitz]

the '75 show from winterland is awesome, and there are some great live recordings from '76, but the full 1983 rio show would be incredible in its own right.

kiss with vinnie vincent at rio 1983 for the win!

[Genebaby]

BS, I love the Killers songs, the 80's Kiss stuff AND Vinnie's stuff. Vinnie's is superior, but don't say the Killers stuff had no balls, they are great, catchy tunes. I am bummed when Paul disses them, bit you get that.

I have also given my money to see Kiss twice in March with my daughter cause these guys have the balls to get out there and play and she will remember it for the rest of her life. She only knows Vinnie through the T-shirts that I wear.

Paul's comments about Vinnie achieving nothing for a long time are valid. Mentioning albums that were never released and are also themselves quite old now have no bearing on Vinnie's recent abilities. If he does with releasing nothing new we will have to assume he lost the magic and was unable to write a decent song past the mid 90's, thus did not release anything.

[Slayer]

Or felt too jaded to motivate himself to continue?

[Brainsaw]

Or felt too jaded to motivate himself to continue?

Excellent answer!

[Brainsaw]

BS, I love the Killers songs, the 80's Kiss stuff AND Vinnie's stuff. Vinnie's is superior, but don't say the Killers stuff had no balls, they are great, catchy tunes. I am bummed when Paul disses them, bit you get that.

You can like them all you want. You can love Unmasked and "The Elder". That's fine. That's your opinion.

But regardless if you loved those albums -- the public didn't.

You might like the Killers songs but they are pretty much forgotten. They weren't great songs. They didn't get great reviews. The band themselves dismiss them. They weren't used on COTN.

Had COTN sounded like Killers... I think KISS would have been dropped by their label after they got done suing them for $5M ... and then had to admit Ace wasn't in the band anymore. That would have been 3 strikes and you're out. (Unmasked, The Elder and Killers-COTN).

I have also given my money to see Kiss twice in March with my daughter cause these guys have the balls to get out there and play and she will remember it for the rest of her life. She only knows Vinnie through the T-shirts that I wear.

It's a shame she probably won't ever see KISS live She saw pseudo KISS. It would be great if more people quit paying to see them. It's happening already. It's why KISS had to bring out Motley Crue for this tour. The "tribute KISS" band is getting old/stale.

If more people would say NO with their wallets-- Gene and Paul would have to bring back Ace and Peter. I imagine it will happen again. They'll want one final blowout.

Paul's comments about Vinnie achieving nothing for a long time are valid. Mentioning albums that were never released and are also themselves quite old now have no bearing on Vinnie's recent abilities. If he does with releasing nothing new we will have to assume he lost the magic and was unable to write a decent song past the mid 90's, thus did not release anything.

Paul who? Stanley?

KISS has released 3 albums since the mid-90's. Psycho Circus I'd give a B- to C+. Monster and Sonic Boom are just crap. Black and Blue could have put out the same albums IMO. Why do you think with each new album -- Gene says it will sound like a Vinnie album???!! He says either Revenge or Creatures Of The Night.

But the fact is--until they bring back Vinnie-- Gene can keep lying -- because there's only ONE WAY that would happen... =)

[Genebaby]

Paul is The Good Dr, his claims are valid.

If you want to cling to Vinnie being too jaded as a good reason for his non output that is a massive cop out.

Vinnie was out to conquer the world and he went out with a wimper. Super lame and that's how he'll be remembered if he doesn't turn it around, jaded or not. Most likely record companies are jaded towards his antics but he doesn't need them these days, he just needs to get off his ass.

Killers was fantastic and well received by fans in the countries it was released in. It wasn't released on the US, remember? That place you say that matters? So you can't compare it to Creatures at all. The sound on Killers is great, similar to LIU, which I prefer.

You don't have to like Kiss' new stuff to appreciate they are touring and have kept at it all these years. Vinnie is the loser for staying at home. This is probably a good thing cause he seems to fuck up whenever he does (Kiss conventions anyone?) so he probably should keep out of the public eye until he gets the medication he needs to be a regular person.

[Brainsaw]

Killers was fantastic and well received by fans in the countries it was released in. .

It sold modestly overseas. Did nothing to stop the hemorrhaging of KISS.

You didn't see KISS play those songs live overseas in he set list.

Where are the great reviews for those in Kerrang etc?

The songs were intended to be used on Creatures- didn't use them at all. If they were great--why not?

Why has Paul and pretty much everyone else dismissed them? Kinda like how they didn't even acknowledge Asylum and Crazy Nights on ALIVE III.

You listen to those 4 killers songs and then put on COTN and it doesn't even sound like the same band....

[Brainsaw]

Billboard review of CREATURES

“The back cover may resemble Dire Straits’ current album jacket but any similarities between the ends there. KISS, still not revealing identities, comes back with a hard-hitting dose of very heavy metal. Whereas the last few Kiss albums made concessions to pop and progressive rock audiences, this album takes the foursome back to its roots – simple but effective heavy metal - which made the band so successful in the first place. Prime cuts are ‘Creatures of the Night,’ ‘I Love It Loud,’ ‘Killer’ and ‘Saint and Sinner’” (Billboard, 11/20/82).


The was just the start of KISS having to see VINNIE stuff singled out as the best =) No wonder their egos were crushed.



Especially when LIU hit and KERRANG and Guitar World etc are falling all over themselves and anointing VINNIE. LICK IT UP #3 Kerrang top albums 1983. =)

[doublev2]

When killers came out kerrang was nothing.. like a fanzine. You could not find it in news stands

[Brainsaw]

‘Lick It Up’ is a 100% winner. We’re talking no fillers within riffing distance and much of the credit must be handed to debutant (officially at least) Vinnie Vincent. Not only is his solo and riff work exemplary - taut, hard and melodic at times - but he also co-wrote eight of the album’s ten songs. You can feel the fresh air blowing through the grooves of this record! In truth, as far as individual contributions are concerned, ‘Lick It Up’ must be KISS’ finest performance to date” (Kerrang).

[PinkWiz]

So Brainsaw, is there anything that Vinnie did that you DON'T agree with?

[Genebaby]

+1......

[doublev2]

I agree with brain but kerrang also said crazy nights was the best kiss album since destroyee when it came out. Keersng is no bible of music.

[erg2]

I agree with brain but kerrang also said crazy nights was the best kiss album since destroyee when it came out. Keersng is no bible of music.

Please refrain from referencing Internet articles and posts that do not support the Ass Pimples conclusions. It makes it harder for the Ass Pimple to make definitive statements and tell everyone else they are categorically wrong.