VINCENT & ST. JOHN DISSED ON KISS DOLL BOXES...

[PinkWiz]

I never owned these but the box artwork clearly pokes fun at Vinnie and Mark St. John. Circled below you can see Vinnie is being crushed under the rubble and a wrecked "St. John Street" sign is above him. Art Asylum IMO was a buncha morons for stoopin' to this level (probably some annoying I'm-only-a-fan-of-the-original-lineup dorks). Wonder if Gene and Paul even realized it (or maybe they suggested it?) Either way, it's kinda stupid. Also, I'm surprised Vinnie never sued for the use of his likeness... especially in that manner.

[poserboy71]

I was gonna use the picture of Vinnie from that box as my signature or my avatar but I didn't want there to be any confusion or fear from Vinnie that I might want to hurt him.

Fuck it, I'm already being accused. It might happen soon.

[doublev2]

wow, thats crazy. i wonder if even gene noticed that?

[doublev2]

man, dont give vinnie ideas. lol

[jesternjeff]

Viinie crushed ... what else is new ? lol

[doublev2]

i actually am a little shocked at that. the st.john thing could be taken as a cool thing, but its clear he is crushing vinnie. pretty wild.

[strangeways]

man, dont give vinnie ideas. lol

Hope Vinnie sues them.

[Cernex]

the st.john thing could be taken as a cool thing,

Actually, I don't think that's offensive at all. It's actually quite cool, if you ask me.

Crushed Vinnie though... now that's just a bad idea in VERY poor taste.

[PinkWiz]

Also sucks that St. John is dead now (if it was meant as a jab toward him) and the building in the background kinda looks like the WTC (although these were released years before).

[Cernex]

Also sucks that St. John is dead now (if it was meant as a jab toward him) and the building in the background kinda looks like the WTC (although these were released years before).

True. I think I said before, but didn't it seem a bit... well, weird, that they decided to release one of their only recorded interviews with Mark St. John as an easter egg on Kissology Vol 2 that was released AFTER his death?

[PinkWiz]

I'm sure Paul and Gene were pissed at all the shit talking that Mark did in interviews after being fired from KISS. I have an audio interview with Mark somewhere around here from '88 and he disses every single KISS member past and present! He was VERY bitter. He claimed Gene and Paul hated each other. He even says Bruce would've sucked Paul's dick and that when he first met Vinnie he was just a "little greasy-haired guy" that didn't fit into KISS. Wish I could find that fukn tape...

[Cernex]

when he first met Vinnie he was just a "little greasy-haired guy" that didn't fit into KISS.

I've heard that quote. However, I THINK it was more about the irony about him thinking KISS being a "shitty little band"... that he ended up joining after Vinnie left. It happened when Dana Strum introduced Mark to Vinnie, supposedly.

Mark seemed VERY bitter at times (specially after he was let go), but for whatever reason as time went by it SEEMED that he was able to eventually to let it go. Maybe that's just me, though.

[doublev2]

Yes it does look like people jumping from the wtc. I really font understand this at all. It seems very political rather than fun and dumb. I would not think gene requested to do this so openly. What is the picture on the other dolls?

[doublev2]

These are from 1998. 13 years ago and its the same box for all 4 members

[doublev2]

So in short this was before marks death and 9/11. But still strange. Peter criss is crushing vinnie in his box just like gene. Didn't peter have a big fall out with mark st john earlier too.

[PinkWiz]

Yes, Peter got mad at Mark for leaving The Keep because it wasn't going anywhere. Plus Mark said he was sick of Peter's constant mood swings. I always thought Peter Criss and Mark St. John in a band together was just fukn odd... I mean they weren't even in KISS together! Kinda like Sylvester Cat meeting Wil E. Coyote... both are Looney Tunes but never appeared in the same cartoon.

[doublev2]

Yeah, such different musicians too. They must have met at a convention maybe.

[doublev2]

Peter has worked with every single kiss guitarist if you include vinnie's tears. Player with tommy on tour, Bruce in unplugged, mark in the keep and used a vinnie tune on his solo album.

[Brooklyn_Born]

I never heard all that negativity about MSJ before... It's s shame he said krap like that about all the members... Especially Bruce.... Not kool!

[doublev2]

Bruce said him and mark were great friends.
I only heard in the 80s that he said kiss tried to control his playing and he liked to play on top of the rhythm and kiss wanted him to play with the rhythm.

[shramiac]

I only heard in the 80s that he said kiss tried to control his playing and he liked to play on top of the rhythm and kiss wanted him to play with the rhythm.

I think that is in the Guitar for the Pract Musician interviews from 1990. They are here in the interview section. Although I might be having a flashback to the old DV site!

WHEN I WAS STILL ON THERE!!!!

[PinkWiz]

I found the interview I was referring to on youtube!




[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

[PinkWiz]

[youtube][/youtube]

[PinkWiz]

oh well, whoever posted this didn't post the entire interview...

[Cernex]

Yes, Peter got mad at Mark for leaving The Keep because it wasn't going anywhere. Plus Mark said he was sick of Peter's constant mood swings. I always thought Peter Criss and Mark St. John in a band together was just fukn odd... I mean they weren't even in KISS together! Kinda like Sylvester Cat meeting Wil E. Coyote... both are Looney Tunes but never appeared in the same cartoon.

I heard somewhere that actually Mark fought really hard to have Peter Criss to play drums on the "Mark St. John Project LP" back when the project was bigger and far more ambitious (people say that the whole thing was originally GOING to be "The Keep" via a recording deal St. John managed to secure by himself, but no proof has even been found about this), but for whatever reason that never materialized.

Maybe Criss never forgave St. John for leaving "The Keep"? Of course, the demos were going nowhere, the reviews were... well, bad, to say the least, and he DID have to worry about taking care of his family. All and all, St. John had very valid reasons to leave The Keep when he did.

[Cernex]

I never heard all that negativity about MSJ before... It's s shame he said krap like that about all the members... Especially Bruce.... Not kool!

That's because KISS really never delved too much into St. John's tenure as lead guitarist. If you ask them, they'll say he was a great guitarist (they even did so when he was still around) but that he had to be let go due to his reactive arthritis because he really couldn't play... and because this is all very well true (Norton confirmed this plenty of times), there was really no need of bigger drama than that.

St. John, at least for me, was as bitter as anybody else would be on his position, but like I said before, as time went by he seemed to let go of his bitterness (like going from saying Bruce "would've sucked Paul's dick is he had to" to actually being friends with the guy). Not to mention both White Tiger and The Keep seemed almost to implode and fail, and that's bound to make anybody a bit angry and grumpy, don't you think? Of course, when "Project" and "Bullet Theory" came around and he began to make some money, some of that went away... I think.

[PinkWiz]

I always felt kinda bad for Mark getting sick right after he joined KISS, but in Gene and Paul's defense, the guy wasn't really even in the band long enough for them to keep waiting on him. Also, it probably took a couple of months in the studio and on the road to realize that Mark didn't really fit and that Bruce was the perfect choice (after repeated attempts by Bob Kulick to get them to hire Bruce).

Hindsight being 20/20 (and although we wouldn't have had all the great Vinnie/KISS material... unless they kept Vinnie around as a songwriter) for Paul and Gene's best interest, they should've hired Bruce during Creatures (I think the ankh makeup would've looked fine on him) He was hanging around in the studio while they recorded Creatures and I could never realize why Gene and Paul didn't hire him in a heartbeat (he played similar to Bob but actually looked the part... tall with black long hair, etc.) He was exactly what they were lookin for... someone who didn't question them and knew his part in the grand scheme of the band AND could play.

But of course, that's the past... I could go on and on...

[Cernex]

I guess it all boiled down to Paul looking for somebody with an "edge" that could being something new to KISS. That was definitely the case with Vincent, and from a certain point of view (and even by Paul's own admission), the same could be said about Mark's ability with the guitar. I think that when they found out that sort of view only brought problems (once again, just look at what happened with Vinnie) they decided to go with somebody a little bit less wild when it came to the guitar, which, IF YOU ASK ME, was the very case with Bruce. He was good, but nowhere near as good as Vinnie nor Mark.

[doublev2]

Bruce said to me he used to see vv on the guitar shop he worked in new york but he didnt meet him since he was in kiss.

[metatron]

Bruce said to me he used to see vv on the guitar shop he worked in new york but he didnt meet him since he was in kiss.

Told me the story how VV stole a Floyd Rose from a Les Paul custom (that was specially fitted with it) from the shop he worked at.

[KissMyAss]

man, dont give vinnie ideas. lol

Hope Vinnie sues them.

[Brooklyn_Born]

The Outlaw Vinnie Vincent... I wonder what guitar store hecworked at? Must have been in NYC...

[metatron]

The Outlaw Vinnie Vincent... I wonder what guitar store hecworked at? Must have been in NYC...

Yes, was NYC.

[Brooklyn_Born]

Cool...