Why part of me sees VV's point of view.

wolfgang161272 · Post by **wolfgang161272** » Tue May 10, 2011 10:59 pm

interesting! Tell me a little bit more about your point of view Danii

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Wed May 11, 2011 12:42 am

How the music industry is like taking out a huge bank loan...As an artist you are 'forced' by the label to spend a shit load of money (that really is not yours) on studios, on videos & all the other crap that goes into making you a 'Star'. The record company is happy enough to give you the money, but there is a catch

You got to pay it back.

There was a band in the early to mid 90's from Melbourne, Australia call Mantissa (formed as Killing Time). These guys & (a girl) got give money, credit cards with huge balances. So what did they do

They all went & purchased new equipment, cloths, had parties...Blew the money. Then they didn't sell the billions of records that the label's salesmen told them they would & wa-la.., presto, a huge debt that they had to pay back as stated in the fine print of their contract. Gotta remember 99.99% of musos are not rocket sciences when it comes to finance issues or the law...Bands, musos represent the guy giving the middle figure to the man (corporations), so these things are the last things that musos are going to look into....Unless your Gene (Money Bags) $immion$. PB has probably a few stories he can tell us on the subject.

Skwint · Post by **Skwint** » Wed May 11, 2011 1:54 am

yeah - loads of bands got stiffed the same way by the labels.

Post by **Streetbeat** » Wed May 11, 2011 2:50 am

So what happened to Mantissa ?

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Wed May 11, 2011 4:14 am

It's clear vv will not have had all the money due to him, but also kiss themselves will have had the same problem with the labels. Didnt they have a shit load of money stolen around the time of crazy nights from there stock broker? In the film industry its the same. Contracts and creative accounting will screw most of the little guys some way or another. Personally at the time of vv in kiss I don't think kiss were that on the ball financially as people think and also they were maybe thinking the life span of kiss was coming to an end until lick it up came out so they were most likely penny pinching.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Wed May 11, 2011 6:42 am

Dannii pretty much nailed it. Bands get these advances that they have to use to pay for studio time- studios that are sometimes

owned by the record company ) . The money gets fed back into the industry and the artists are the ones suffer. This is one of the reasons that the recording industry is mostly comprised of "artists"/puppets that need songs written for them. The REAL "ARTISTS" have home studios and supply these puppets with songs.

Look at the history of the first Boston (Tom Scholz) album. In a nutshell: He basically had that album's sounds perfected. Got the record deal. The record company wanted him to RE-RECORD the album.FUCK THAT. He sent Brad Delp to a studio out West while he stayed home in his basement and kept recording. The album was basically recorded at Tom's place while using the studio out West as a front to the record company. Tom saved a shitload of money that went directly in his pocket and not back to the record company. The album sold incredibly well . No problem paying the record company back because they hardly SPENT any money. They didn't play the record company swindle game.

I have worked with a few bands that went the opposite direction. Let's just say, it is a shame when the roadie(me)had a better grasp on their instrument than most of the band, had a degree in music, sang on the pre-production demos( Josh Freese drumming,Eric Valentine producing) because the singer was wasted,etc...

I worked for a band on Ozzfest 2000(The Deadlights) that lost their deal and management DURING the tour. Talk about a band that had their balloon deflated ...

...

syncophile42 · Post by **syncophile42** » Wed May 11, 2011 8:26 am

It used to be called an 'Advance' I believe, and therein lies the rub. A lot of people didn't get that and got burned.

syncophile42 · Post by **syncophile42** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:22 am

Add unscrupulous lawyers, managers, accountants and anyone else who wants more than their fair share of the pie into the mix, and it’s easy to see why a lot of people either :

- bombed and ended up bankrupt or owing thousands
- did relatively well and still ended up with virtually nothing
- got totally disillusioned with the business and got out
- tried to make it on their own, which is not easy...

In short, disappeared without a trace.

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Wed May 11, 2011 3:53 pm

Streetbeat wrote:So what happened to Mantissa ?

I know the Drummer, Tubby is working @ Allens Music @ Camperdown NSW. He also plays with a couple of ex- Candy Harlots, Members in a band called Melody Black...The rest of Mantissa...don't know. Think a couple are dead, some may be in Jail & Tubby is playing R N' R.

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Wed May 11, 2011 4:05 pm

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Wed May 11, 2011 4:18 pm

[youtube][/youtube]

Brooklyn_Born · Post by **Brooklyn_Born** » Wed May 11, 2011 4:56 pm

I never did like this segment in DOTWC... Chris was seriously fucked up to be carrying on like that in front of his mother... Another victim of the music industry, the pressure, fame, success and all the other trappings with the lifestyle...

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Wed May 11, 2011 6:17 pm

Brooklyn_Born wrote:I never did like this segment in DOTWC... Chris was seriously fucked up to be carrying on like that in front of his mother... Another victim of the music industry, the pressure, fame, success and all the other trappings with the lifestyle...

I don't know? I always thought he was just a tool!!!

Thanks for reminding me of Mantissa's bass player Dannii! Va va va voom!!!!!

One VERY attractive lady!

[youtube][/youtube]

And be gentlemen when watching the video and don't pause it at 1.45! I mean......not that I noticed!

Jeez! I can't believe this is from 20 years ago!!

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Wed May 11, 2011 6:51 pm

shramiac wrote:l!!!

Thanks for reminding me of Mantissa's bass player Dannii! Va va va voom!!!!! One VERY attractive lady!

[youtube][/youtube]

And be gentlemen when watching the video and don't pause it at 1.45! I mean......not that I noticed!

Jeez! I can't believe this is from 20 years ago!!

Those x ray eyes of yours....I just saw a camel's _ _ _...Nice-ah

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:19 pm

In twenty years I've never forgotten THAT image from the vid!!! What a pig I am!

wolfgang161272 · Post by **wolfgang161272** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:27 pm

1:45 !!!!!!! That sucks

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed May 11, 2011 10:18 pm

I had never noticed it before, but didn't really pay them much attention. I remember them now, with the name change and all. Seeing old Aussie MTV was cool too.

Nice like tidbit at 1:45 though.....lol.

Brooklyn_Born · Post by **Brooklyn_Born** » Wed May 11, 2011 10:41 pm

I remember waiting up to watch MTV Australia back in 1990 to see the Aussie premiere of Rise to It.. MTV started at 1030 or 11pm I remember Kiss coming on really late in the show well after midnight or 1am but it was a cool video with Gene & Paul remasking for the backstage scenes... Eric Carr as Peter Criss wearing Vinnie's Creatures vest was a strange situation??!

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu May 12, 2011 5:30 am

metatron wrote:[youtube][/youtube]

Getting everything you've dreamt of and coming to the realization that it isn't what you expected is a painful thing to deal with.
It comes down to maturity. Most youth would blow through the money.Give us 40 year old fans the same opportunity and we would take care of our families,live modestly ,and pay our bills.

I've never done drugs and really only drank during my divorce. When I did tour , it was amusing just how many people were just like Chris. When I spoke with him a few months back, Chris was very realistic about his career . He said that NO ONE wants to play with him . He finds it difficult to even jam with those "ALL STAR " bands in Hollywood because he has burnt so many bridges with his drinking and behavior.
I believe Chris is sober now. He comes across as remorseful. One ends up rooting for him to succeed again so he can appreciate it. I hate to say that he is a lovable loser.

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu May 12, 2011 7:57 am

I dug his playing in WASP, it was right for the music. I loved their KFD album, that was their last good one.

wolfgang161272 · Post by **wolfgang161272** » Thu May 12, 2011 10:09 pm

Brooklyn_Born wrote:I remember waiting up to watch MTV Australia back in 1990 to see the Aussie premiere of Rise to It.. MTV started at 1030 or 11pm I remember Kiss coming on really late in the show well after midnight or 1am but it was a cool video with Gene & Paul remasking for the backstage scenes... Eric Carr as Peter Criss wearing Vinnie's Creatures vest was a strange situation??!

Eric Carr as Peter in Vinnie's vest??? Is there a picture available ??????`

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu May 12, 2011 11:00 pm

Not that I can find. Watch the Rise To It video on Youtube, you can see lots of Gene and Paul, as they were the only original Kiss at that time, putting on their makeup and talking, with the other guys in the background.

The costumes on all of them are wrong, but it was cool they did it at the time.

wolfgang161272 · Post by **wolfgang161272** » Fri May 13, 2011 3:13 am

..has you seen the ultra long hair of Paul??? LOL
And the costume of Gene with stripes holding it on.

Brooklyn_Born · Post by **Brooklyn_Born** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:36 am

Wolfi - In the Rise to It video which has a backstage flashback sequence which is meant to be 1975 Paul & Gene are discussing performing without make up down the track, Paul wore his 1980 Unmasked Body suit & belt with his Love Gun jacket & Love Gun boots while Gene wore his 1980 Unmasked outfit... You don't actually see Eric & Bruce from the front as they are sitting on a sofa and were filmed from behind but Eric is twirling drum sticks so he was meant to be Peter Criss but he is wearing Vinnie's Creatures vest and I can't actually recall what Bruce Kulick is wearing?? I have to see the video again

Fullshed · Post by **Fullshed** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:45 am

poserboy71 wrote:Dannii pretty much nailed it. Bands get these advances that they have to use to pay for studio time- studios that are sometimes owned by the record company ) . The money gets fed back into the industry and the artists are the ones suffer. This is one of the reasons that the recording industry is mostly comprised of "artists"/puppets that need songs written for them. The REAL "ARTISTS" have home studios and supply these puppets with songs.

Look at the history of the first Boston (Tom Scholz) album. In a nutshell: He basically had that album's sounds perfected. Got the record deal. The record company wanted him to RE-RECORD the album.FUCK THAT. He sent Brad Delp to a studio out West while he stayed home in his basement and kept recording. The album was basically recorded at Tom's place while using the studio out West as a front to the record company. Tom saved a shitload of money that went directly in his pocket and not back to the record company. The album sold incredibly well . No problem paying the record company back because they hardly SPENT any money. They didn't play the record company swindle game.

I have worked with a few bands that went the opposite direction. Let's just say, it is a shame when the roadie(me)had a better grasp on their instrument than most of the band, had a degree in music, sang on the pre-production demos( Josh Freese drumming,Eric Valentine producing) because the singer was wasted,etc...

I worked for a band on Ozzfest 2000(The Deadlights) that lost their deal and management DURING the tour. Talk about a band that had their balloon deflated ...

...

Dang Rick that's an interesting story. Thanks for writing that one out

wolfgang161272 · Post by **wolfgang161272** » Mon May 16, 2011 4:28 am

Brooklyn_Born wrote:Wolfi - In the Rise to It video which has a backstage flashback sequence which is meant to be 1975 Paul & Gene are discussing performing without make up down the track, Paul wore his 1980 Unmasked Body suit & belt with his Love Gun jacket & Love Gun boots while Gene wore his 1980 Unmasked outfit... You don't actually see Eric & Bruce from the front as they are sitting on a sofa and were filmed from behind but Eric is twirling drum sticks so he was meant to be Peter Criss but he is wearing Vinnie's Creatures vest and I can't actually recall what Bruce Kulick is wearing?? I have to see the video again

I've looked the video when I was home - funny. Long time ago that I see the scenes with Paul and Gene...

Brooklyn_Born · Post by **Brooklyn_Born** » Mon May 16, 2011 4:56 am

Cool video

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