The Vinnie Vincent Forum - Where Freedom Rocks!

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:38 am**

Funny descriptions.
Vv said in 88 he wanted to re record first record with mark. I dont see the reason he had to say that.
He also criticised roberts voice not being powerful enough. Thats not spin to sell records like the story that mark didnt put name on demo tape . I do not understand why he put robert down if he loved his voice.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:44 am**

Vinnie Vincent wanted to re record ASG with Robert Fleischman

http://www.bravewords.com/news/164857

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:46 am**

Vvi had to promote themselves to concert promoters and radio stations.
So saying 400k in two months is bs but looks good to concert bookers who had no idea who vvi were.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:12 am**

Vinnie Vincent said "Robert Fleischman is hands down the best fucking rock singer I think I've ever heard" (Streetbeat, January 1986)

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:13 am**

Then changed it in 88 and again in 2012.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:15 am**

I am certain brainsaw is enjoying winding me up and pulling this crap out of its ass.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:47 am**

Vinnie Vincent Invasion (debut album)---Sold over 400,000 copies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_System ... ion_album)
Vinnie Vincent Invasion: All Systems Go---Sold over 150,000 copies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_System ... ion_album)

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:49 am**

yeah. actually Brainsaw could well be mixing the two records up. 150k sounds about right even though I am still a little surprised at those figures. but i am sure thats about it.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:50 am**

I agree ASG should have been a platinum record but it wasn't which is what we used to talk about 5 or 6 years ago on vv forums.. why the hell did ASG flop so bad with 3 or 4 potential top 40 radio hits.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:54 am**

also the double platinum selling stick it to ya will have helped add sales to ASG in 1990. Also the kiss effect but in 1988 Kiss also wasnt the band it is now. Nowhere near the 'star trek' type following they have now.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:00 am**

doublev2 wrote: Nowhere near the 'star trek' type following they have now.

Very well put !

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:01 am**

read this brainsaw http://articles.latimes.com/1988-08-26/ ... ion-vinnie

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:03 am**

obviously i would not agree with the review but Brunette could draw huge crowds in LA and Tuff ok crowds as well and it was 2/3s full. Thats not a band selling 400 records in two months. Brunette sold more t-shirts that night than VVI.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:04 am**

plus that Los Angeles the capital on rock/metal at the time. Imagine smaller cities.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:05 am**

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:36 am**

KissMyAss wrote:Vinnie Vincent Invasion (debut album)---Sold over 400,000 copies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_System ... ion_album)
Vinnie Vincent Invasion: All Systems Go---Sold over 150,000 copies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_System ... ion_album)

And what's their source for each of those? Where is that source?

The facts don't add up.

ASG had a much larger marketing push by far.

VVI had a much larger fan base by the time of ASG than for the debut.

The retail sales reports shows ASG was beating big name artists.

It was flying up Billboard far faster than the debut.

Oh, but who cares about actual facts. I mean, its on Wikepedia without any source to back it up.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:52 am**

Brainsaw wrote:Now remember all the false claims about not much lead up or coverage of ASG coming out .
Well lets look at reality --the stories that were hitting in the months before ASG was out:

Then of course the ad push Teaser ads in RIP, Guitar World and Hit Parader (April 1988)
Full page color ads after that in Kerrang, Circus, Metal, Creem, Metal Edge and Faces

I guess none of these magazines etc were carried in Houston or at Pawn Shops =))
Reality-its a wonderful thing!

National Rock Mags
Creem Close Up March 1988 very upbeat and informational 4 pages
Rock Hunks (Rock Scene) Special #4 Mark pictorial, on the light side 6 pages
Circus January 1988 "front page news item" Vinnie
Rock Feb 1988 Update on Invasion
Hit Parader Feb 1988 Interview with Vinnie, new news 2 pages
50 Metal Pix March 1988 Fast Facts
Metal Edge Feb 1988 Vinnie-quote about women
Hot Metal Dec 1987 5 pages (they printed old pictures)
Blast Dec 1987 informative, respectable 4 pages
Concert Shots March 1988 really silly, but teenish 9 pages & cover

Regional Press
LA Times Calendar 11/29/1987 news item about new lp
City Edition (NY) 11/30/ 1987 interview with Vinnie
Music Connection 11/30/ 1987 news items that are funny/wrong

-------

Metal Edge May 88 4 pages behind the scenes: album cover/photo session
Rock Scene April 88 6 pages deals with the past, present, future
Rock Scene April 88 1/3 page phenomenal album review
Creem Metal April 88 1/2 page AIDS article
Metal Edge April 1988 1/3 page Update on All Systems Go
Rock March 1988 1 page past, present
Blast Jan 1988 4 pages past, present
Circus March 1988 album review
Circus March 1988 1/4 part of the guitar hero section

Burnn Japan March 1988 All Systems Go update (1 page)
Kerrang UK Feb 1988 3/4 page pre-article (feature next month)

Table Hopping Syracuse NY Jan 88
Rock City New Hollywood CA Dec 1987

TRADES
Hard Report 12-04-1987
Hard Report 12-11-1987

Franzines
Rock Spotlight N CA Jan 88
Hard N Fast Philadelphia PA Feb 88

---------

R&R Trade 4-88 photo with caption
Album Network trade 4-88 photo with caption
HITS trade 5-88 chart position
Billboard trade 5-88 paragraph in "inside track"
Billboard trade 5-88 Bone's Invasion Strategy
Hard Force France rock 5-88 3 page feature
Burrn Japan Rock 6-88 1 page feature
Metal Edge Metal 9-88 cover / 3 page feature on Mark
Metal Edge Metal 8-88 cover / 5 page feature / baby pix
Rock Scene Metal 8-88 shows Invasion X-Mas Card
Rock Metal 7-88 2 page feature
Hit Parader's Hot Shots Metal 7-88 photos on 3 pages
Circus Metal 6-88 1/8 page in tour highlights
Rockbeat Metal 6-88 1 page color of the band
Rip metal 6-88 1/4 page photo at NAMM
Hit Parader''s Photo Album metal 5-88 1 page color Vinnie
Empire Soundcheck fanzine 4-88 1 page feature
Kiss Rocks KISSzine 3-88 cover/ 4 page feature
Kiss Asylum KISSzine 2-88 1/4 page update

Album Reviews Capsule of Review
Billboard trade 5-88 a glowing review!
Kerrang UK Metal 5-88 KKKKK: The highest score!
RIP Metal Fantastic
Hard N Fast Fanzine Incredible!
Faces metal 6-88 well, it's "alright"

Press releases
a) ROck N Roll Army Invades Los Angeles Media Corridors w/ 1 photo

b) Vinnie Vincent Invasion Hot Out Of The Box

c) Vinnie Vincent and Vicki Peterson Team Up For Bangles LP w/ 1 photo

d) Invasion Celebrates Album Release With Friends w/ 3 photos

WOOPS!! BIG TIME WOOPS!!

That doesn't include anything from the late July Report. Those aren't broken down at the front...but its damn thick... over 150 pages. And since its not broken down, I'm sure as hell not going to bother.

The point is.... any kid with any clue would have known the cd was out. Invasion was everywhere. That's already been proven without listing all the ones from May-July.

Also I had forgotten about all the endorsement advertising they were getting. Once again shooting down the flat out lie that Mark and Dana weren't known.

ENDORSEMENT ADS

Bobby Rock Sabian Cymbols 1/3 page with
Modern Drummer
Rhythm
Music Trade Magazine
Drum Tracks
there major international percussion magazines

DANA STRUM and CARVIN AMPS (full page with himself)

ads in Guitar World
Guitar Player
Guitar for the Practicing Musician
Circus
Hit Parader
BAM

MARK SLAUGHTER and VESTA FIRE POCKET STUDIO (full page)
ads in Guitar for the Practicing Musician
Guitar World
Circus

also got Reebok deal

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:59 am**

Brainsaw no no no no no no no all wrong. Vv wasnt able to hold on to fans from first record especially with no mtv air play and merch. They coukd put ads in mags but the target audience .. high school kids had no money so were not going to ask parents for an album that they have not heard from tv or radio. Plus even mag ads didnt really work anyway

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:22 am**

I found out my information from those small news blurbs in the magazines.

Yes, We saw the articles and the endorsement ads.

I see many guitar endorsement ads now and couldn't tell you you the name of the guitarist or their band.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:44 pm**

Brainsaw . Did you read the la times review?
750 people went to hom gig of vvi in los angeles with two popular local acts opening up.
Playing In a city with masses of metal and rock fsns. I am sure tuff brought at lesst 100 friends. Same as brunette and brunette were getting really big.
Is that the audience of a band bigger than dokken?
I rest my case. And am finished wirh this.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:38 pm**

To put in perspective. Vv struggled to get three quarters capacity in hollywood.. his home in 1200 capacity hall.

Yngwie a few months before headlined a16 thousand capacity venue near to hollywood.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:47 pm**

The gig in portland on asg tour had so few advance ticket sales they had a local amateur battle of the bands open up the show. A lot of people cleared out before vvi came on.

I wish it had been as big as how brainiac describes it.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:19 pm**

YNGWIE 1988 Irvine Meadows Ampitheater HEADLINING capacity 16,000
VVI 1988 Hollywood HEADLINIG capacity 1,200 (700 people attendance and the highest attended gig without LA Guns who were bigger than VVI selling more shirts). (Yes I know it is now a 4000 capacity after the refit but in 80s/90s it was 1200 capacity)

Please tell me I have bad memory again!!! I bet without Brunette and Tuff on the bill it would have been 300 or 400 people at the show like most of the other gigs.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:37 pm**

poserboy71 wrote:I found out my information from those small news blurbs in the magazines.

Yes, We saw the articles and the endorsement ads.

Then you should know how much publicity there was for it.

The big mistake they made was going ahead and touring. But the tour they did was a thrown together last minute, not promoted at all kind of affair.

Had it been with LA Guns after "Cocked and Loaded" came out --that would have been a different story.

The tour they did was just last minute. Such a shame.

What I do remember is Vinnie wanting to go out on tour with Malmsteen.

Vinnie's new manager after he fired Sewitt was of course.... Malmsteen's.

Of course YM refused. The Sweede knew Vinnie would blow him off the stage. Vinnie was willing to open. Vinnie was smart. Vinnie knew he could deliver the KO.

But Malmsteen goes out and gets artists he knows will help draw people in---especially LITA FORD. Heck, Lita probably should have been headlining that tour instead of opening.

It was a triple bill of Malmsteen, Lita Ford and Black N Blue for alot of the Odyssey dates. Even with proper promotion etc, alot of the venues were 2,000 to 3,000 seaters and those things were put on sales months in advance.

"LITA" was already gold by the time the tour started. It went on to go Platinum.

Me and my buddies caught a few of the shows. We'd go watch BNB and Lita...stay for about half of Malmsteen and take off. Lita put on a great show.

But its still funny what a chicken **** Yngwie was.

http://rockshowtrader.com/YngwieTourDataBase.html

And if you look at those tour dates--you can see why Vinnie wanted it as well. Instead of going out with MSG, ,they could have started out with him May 19, 1988 and it would have been perfect timing as ASG had just come out a few weeks earlier.

Yngwie did a hell of alot of touring from 1984 up until then.

Ah heck, had Vinnie gotten it, he probably would have gotten kicked off.

Knowing Vinnie, he'd go out and try and get the crowd to DEMAND a "Crossroads Type" showdown. Instead of Steve Vai vs Karate Kid though.... it would have made for one hell of a show.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:52 pm**

The hollywood show was promoted well in all the normal los angeles outlets also in national mags and headbangers ball.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:54 pm**

Sorry to say but black n blue would have been as big or bigger than vinnie. Lita and yngwie were getting mtv play.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:01 pm**

Ah heck is a very familiar reply btw

700 people in vvs home town. Alll papers had ads in and posters around town. If vv was flying of shelves dont you think the kids would be looking out for gigs?
I am not against vv just telling it how it is. I would loved it if vvi was popular.

Sorry you dont know what you are talking about.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:07 pm**

Dod you hear the radio promotion call in where only one person called? Where were the people going crazy for vv then? And the call had no relation to vvi at all.

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:51 am**

doublev2 wrote:Sorry to say but black n blue would have been as big or bigger than vinnie. Lita and yngwie were getting mtv play.

Black N Blue should have changed their name to BLACK N BLEW. Horrible .
They weren't as good or as popular as VVI.
****************************************************************
BS,
I AGREE. A Vinnie Vincent/Malmsteen tour would have been great and would've propelled Vinnie's career further because Vinnie would've owned him. The playing and showmanship on both parts would've been insane BUT Vinnie would've clocked him with his songs.

George Sewitt is (allegedly

) a crook.

Once again, YES, I did see a lot of advertisement for VVI ,BUT ONLY BECAUSE I HUNTED IT DOWN.
The only way that I knew about the VVI show in Columbus,Ohio was because my brother worked at the venue and told my parents to send me down for the show.
You are correct that the tour was unfortunately thrown together.
I have to say that Vinnie handled it like a champ and made it one of the BEST concert experiences I have ever had.
How about that introduction? You do come off as very familiar .

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:50 am**

Ok black n blue not as popular as vvi but not far behind. Talking popular

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:51 am**

Monsters of rock tour 1988 opening act .. kingdom come album platinum.. dokken... platinum ... metallica scorps and vsn halen multi platinum.
Please lets end the asg talk.

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:29 am**

poserboy71 wrote:
doublev2 wrote:Sorry to say but black n blue would have been as big or bigger than vinnie. Lita and yngwie were getting mtv play.
Black N Blue should have changed their name to BLACK N BLEW. Horrible .
They weren't as good or as popular as VVI.

Don't go messing there with reality. Black and Blue had 4 albums on Geffen. I don't think any of them broke 100 on Billboard. Geffen just kept throwing money down a hole.

But there were alot of kids there at the shows for them for the KISS connection.

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:36 am**

Yeah but not far behind vvi. True I didnt see their videos just like vvi asg.

Please answer my two questions.

Where did you hear aces' s bots in 1985
Where did you get cherokee studios tapes

And for good measure show me ashes to ashes single / radio edit.

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:43 am**

poserboy71 wrote: I AGREE. A Vinnie Vincent/Malmsteen tour would have been great and would've propelled Vinnie's career further because Vinnie would've owned him. The playing and showmanship on both parts would've been insane BUT Vinnie would've clocked him with his songs.

George Sewitt is (allegedly ) a crook.

Cay we say without allegedly that Sewitt is an idiot?

Oh Nigel. That guy was one of the biggest dicks I've come across. He had himself set up at the Beverly Hills Hotel.

I wouldn't have minded hearing Joe Lynn Turner on some Vinnie songs. I always dug his voice.

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:48 am**

Brainsaw wrote:
poserboy71 wrote: I AGREE. A Vinnie Vincent/Malmsteen tour would have been great and would've propelled Vinnie's career further because Vinnie would've owned him. The playing and showmanship on both parts would've been insane BUT Vinnie would've clocked him with his songs.

George Sewitt is (allegedly ) a crook.

Cay we say without allegedly that Sewitt is an idiot?

Oh Nigel. That guy was one of the biggest dicks I've come across. He had himself set up at the Beverly Hills Hotel.

I wouldn't have minded hearing Joe Lynn Turner on some Vinnie songs. I always dug his voice.

YES

GS= Douchebag
JLT !!!! = A HUGE step up from someone like JSS.
What was Vinnie thinking ?

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:23 am**

Nigel was the manager after george. British guy.

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:25 am**

For you to know nigel you convinced me you are not bullshitting about knowing vv.. very obscure true fact.

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:29 am**

Isnt jlt a little difficult. I saw him fight with yngwie on stage. I know yngwie is not easy either.

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:50 am**

So much fun!

I was and am a Vinnie fan. Most of my fans were into metal and, of course, during that time they were all aware of the "hair metal" explosion. I can tell you this with NO reservations; NOBODY knew about the VINNIE VINCENT INVASION. Trust me. I did my best to pass the name onto anybody that told me they like metal music or KISS. They were completely clueless.

Within 2 months of that UP ALL NIGHT video, everybody I knew had heard of SLAUGHTER. Many might not have been fans and thought they were posers, but when the discussion of metal came up I would ask if they had heard of SLAUGHTER. The answer was always "yes". My next sentence was always, "Well then you should check out the VINNIE VINCENT INVASION." To which I was always replied, "Never heard of them." Always.

Unlike everyone else on here, I liked SLAUGHTER. I found them to be completely different than VVI and that was fine with me. They were a pop band and had come catchy hooks and some fun songs. Nothing I could really rock out to like VVI, but not bad.

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:12 am**

Brainsaw makes it sound like we all hate and wanted Vinnie and VVI to have been a failure. As I stated in another thread, I told anyone that even remotely liked metal about Vinnie and VVI but I never once met anyone that had heard of him. As PB71 said above...yes, there were ads and articles and I still have a bunch of my magazines to this day, but you had to go to the grocery store EVERY month and specifically look through every page of EVERY rock magazine to see if there were a mention of VVI. How is someone supposed to "casually" discover that?

I found out the VVI had broken up by reading in some rock magazine at my local IGA grocery in a rumors column about how former VVI members Mark Slaughter and Dana Strum were starting a new band called SECRET SERVICE.

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:05 am**

erg2 wrote:Brainsaw makes it sound like we all hate and wanted Vinnie and VVI to have been a failure. As I stated in another thread, I told anyone that even remotely liked metal about Vinnie and VVI but I never once met anyone that had heard of him. As PB71 said above...yes, there were ads and articles and I still have a bunch of my magazines to this day, but you had to go to the grocery store EVERY month and specifically look through every page of EVERY rock magazine to see if there were a mention of VVI. How is someone supposed to "casually" discover that?

I found out the VVI had broken up by reading in some rock magazine at my local IGA grocery in a rumors column about how former VVI members Mark Slaughter and Dana Strum were starting a new band called SECRET SERVICE.

Totally agree...which is a completely insane concept to me. THis is a VV message board I will admit I don't know all of the politics that involve this board and the other one that I can't even see much less join...I know some have called this a hate fourm

whatever that sounds butt hurt to me...I haven't seen anyone say GOD those VVI albums SUCKED!! I mean that would be the most ridiculous thing I can think of to be said on this message board (unless it was sarcastic). This was an obscure band (deal with it BS going non-Gold at the peak of the Hair Metal movement makes whatever the band in question obscure in my book) but just because they were obscure doesn't diminish how great they were. All the if and or but's are inconsequential...I don't care about Endoresment, Magazine articles or airplay...the fact is neither album went gold to try to give the impression that VVI was big is ridiculous. Guns and Roses, Def Leppard, Motley Crue, Van Halen, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest....do I need to go on?....those were the big bands.
As for Slaughter...I don't hate them, the first album is alright but they are far inferior to VVI As for Black and Blue....some of the rankest most putrid music I've ever heard...I still don't understand how they got a major label record deal. VVI was bigger than Black and Blue but who gives a shit...popularity has nothing to do with quality

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:19 am**

I have decided to let up on brainsaw. I like your passion and knowledge of very weird facts. Dont worry about my questions.
Lets just get along. Lifes too short.

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:25 am**

Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad....more incredulous...but I agree BS knows some stuff I don't know about which shows his love for VVs music and that is cool. I just wish we could drop the VVI was popular nonsense

Posted: **Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:30 am**

VVI mattered/matters to me. That's what is important. It is cool to be in a place that VVI and Vinnie is the main topic.
A lot of guitarists don't have fan forums like this.

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:40 am**

doublev2 wrote:

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:52 am**

erg2 wrote: I was and am a Vinnie fan. Most of my fans were into metal and, of course, during that time they were all aware of the "hair metal" explosion. I can tell you this with NO reservations; NOBODY knew about the VINNIE VINCENT INVASION. Trust me. I did my best to pass the name onto anybody that told me they like metal music or KISS. They were completely clueless.

So much ego centrism going on. People acting like what happened to them applied to all over the US. Not to mention in the face of all the evidence that proves otherwise. Gotta hand it to some of ya.

Obviously none of your friends bought any number of 10 or more rock magazines. Had they--they couldn't have missed Invasion in there.

Obviously, they weren't KISS fans.

Obviously, they didn't go see Alice Cooper "The Nightmare Returns" tour or Iron Maiden when VVI was opening for them.

Obviously they didn't watch MTV or even "Hard 60" / "Headbangers Ball"

Also, if the "claims of some" are to be believed, then why was VVI being considered for the Aerosmith opening slot as well at the time of All Systems Go. They would have had it ...had the record not been delayed. One of the biggest tours of that year. Probably top 3 or 4 for sure. "Permanent Vacation" was a hugely successful tour.

And also, getting the song for the next NIGHTMARE movie (the highest grossing Nightmare movie). So after Dokken, VVI gets that.... but again....

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:39 am**

Brainsaw wrote:
erg2 wrote: I was and am a Vinnie fan. Most of my fans were into metal and, of course, during that time they were all aware of the "hair metal" explosion. I can tell you this with NO reservations; NOBODY knew about the VINNIE VINCENT INVASION. Trust me. I did my best to pass the name onto anybody that told me they like metal music or KISS. They were completely clueless.
So much ego centrism going on. People acting like what happened to them applied to all over the US. Not to mention in the face of all the evidence that proves otherwise. Gotta hand it to some of ya.

Fuck you, you delusional dipshit. Never once did I say that MY experience was that of the entire US. I said MY experience was MY experience, but that it aligned with much of what I hear and read on this site and others.

So go back to your stack of magazines and jerk off to your meaningless statistics. And I say meaningless because if YOU were correct then Vinnie wouldn't be living in a shitbox house in the middle of nowhere neighborhood trying to declare bankruptcy every year.

Jeez. What a jagoff.

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:00 am**

Thanks erg2, I needed that.

One of my best friends went to that Alice tour and missed the opening band. I told him recently that he missed VVI. He had NO IDEA at the time that VVI was the opener.

As for friends buying the 10 or more Rock magazines, I believe we have already discussed that a lot of stores didn't carry these publications.

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:11 pm**

Brainsaw,

The past is useless. If you can convince Vinnie Vincent to join a group, and record albums again, then we shall all be grateful. Whether All Systems Go was popular in 1988 is inapplicable to the present.

Posted: **Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:14 pm**

Brainsaw asg was nowhere neae gold. Fuck off

The Vinnie Vincent Forum - Where Freedom Rocks!

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