Italian Facebook Page

Carlo · Post by **Carlo** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:59 am

I ran into this page on Facebook asking for justice for Vinnie :

http://is-is.facebook.com/group.php?gid ... all&ref=mf

http://is-is.facebook.com/group.php?gid ... all&ref=mf

Post by **Genebaby** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:12 am

Hi Carlo,

Marco who runs that page is a member here. Hasn't posted for a while though.

zemsguitar11 · Post by **zemsguitar11** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:34 am

yeah i found that page a while back

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:18 pm

justice for vinnie to do what???

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:28 am

I know justice for Vinnie LOL!

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:10 am

Marco is friends with that girl vv stalker and her family from south America who says she is married to vv and runs the fake vv Facebook.. Enough said. No doubt he is s big fan however.

Carlo · Post by **Carlo** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:43 am

I just read on Marco's Facebook page that Vinnie was fired by Paul and Gene right after CREATURES, however, they could not find a guitarist good enough to replace him so they let him back into the band and recorded LICK IT UP. But the tensions continued so after the LICK IT UP TOUR in 1984 they kicked Vinnie out again, permanently this time. This goes to show that Vinnie is very talented if Paul and Gene asked him to come back. Their arguments surely were caused by different musical directions they wanted to take. Paul and Gene probably didn't want Vinnie to get in the limelight in their place.

"Vinnie Vincent, entrò nei Kiss nel 1982 e con loro pubblicò due album. Il chitarrista aveva già avuto dei diverbi con i due fondatori del gruppo, che lo cacciarono dopo aver pubblicato l'album Creatures of the Night. Egli però venne subito ricontattato dal gruppo in quanto i membri non riuscirono a trovare un sostituto. Così assieme a Vincent i Kiss registrarono anche l'album Lick It Up (1983). Gli attriti tra il guitar hero e i membri fondatori non accennarono a placarsi e questa volta, Stanley e Simmons lo licenziarono definitivamente dopo la fine del tour di Lick It Up nei primi mesi del 1984 venendo sostituito da Mark St. John."

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:18 am

The story I heard was they parted after the European lick it up tour and then vinnie came back for the us lick it up tour.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:44 am

doublev wrote:The story I heard was they parted after the European lick it up tour and then vinnie came back for the us lick it up tour.

THIS. Vinnie left both times .

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:14 am

There were tensions but Vinnie was the obvious choice for the Creatures tour. They did not have the time to muck about looking for anyone else. This led to the recording of the LIU album and the Euro Tour. Vinnie was let go but they realised they had zero time to fill his boots for the American leg so he was extended and then let go again due to not signing anything.

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:03 pm

i read he started writing a few songs (animal and maybe twisted) for Kiss, so I think he didn't 100% know after the tour ended that he was not going to be involved in the next record. It would have been cool to have one more vv kiss record just to see where it would go. I wonder if Back on the streets would have crept onto that record.. i think it would have been a good time to release it.

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:06 am

He did say somewhere that some songs from VVI were meant for the next Kiss record. I also think he said they were too good to use them on Kiss!!...lol.....

ankh · Post by **ankh** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:30 am

wrong info on that page.Vinnie parted ways after the european leg of the LIU tour, Enfer magazine did state that kiss diod aks to mick mars, jack starr-thye refused to comply- and auditioned kevin carlson(from Aldo Nova's band)- who, if i'm correct, was brouhgt by Dana, who was offered 5000 dollars by Paul to find the replacement.Since they couldn't find the right guy,Kiss and Vinnie did make up their diferences for the american tour and then things went from bad to sour.Bruce also did try out-i think during the Creatures sessions,like sambora- but he didn't pass.
Other people contacted by kiss after Ace left were Yngwie,Punky Meadows-HE turned THEM down- and also guitarists from Heart, Chicago were rumoured to ask for an audition.Steve vai was interested but then he did chose otherwise.

Ace did state that Gene did call him during the creatures tour to ask him back,because things weren't the same wihtout him.
Of course, coming from a Kiss member, you have to take anything with a grain of salt

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:39 am

Wasn't Bob was pushing for Bruce and said they were mad not to take him? Man, I think LIU would have been a dog without the Vman's songwriting!

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:54 pm

There would have no LIU without Vinnie...Well, maybe other songs, but not the track listing we ultimately saw. As it is, 8 out of 10 songs on LIU are VV songs. And I'm of the belief that even if Paul & Gene have there name on them also, they had no real input in those 8 songs. I'd say they were 100% VV written & arranged songs. Paul & Gene just sang them. Only input Paul & Gene would have had on those songs, would have been putting their names on the songs to satisfy their big egos.

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:47 am

I think you are partly correct but certainly 8 th day and all hells breaking loose and I suspect million to one were not 100% vv. All hells was based on an Eric tune, and I believe gene wrote the new parts on 8th day that wasn't boys are gonna rock.
I heard lick it up was a vv tune from way back.

Brooklyn_Born · Post by **Brooklyn_Born** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:58 am

And there I was thinking that Paul penned the title Lick it Up..

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:45 am

An old high school band mate of vv came on the dv board and said lick it up was pretty much written in high school. Obviously this is not fact, but the guy was genuine.

Shred4hire · Post by **Shred4hire** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:44 am

what if i told all of you that vinnie was fired both times and i know for a fact.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:46 am

We only ask for proof and source. DON'T BE A COCK TEASE ,Kiss-Ass !!!

Shred4hire · Post by **Shred4hire** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:03 am

vinnies old attorney during the kiss years was my producers attorney.its a very famous True story, that vinnie was fired because he didnt turn over complete owner ship of the songs ( at the time)to them. then vinnie did sign some paper work,granting soem type of rights to kiss .( to get back in the band that was the deal he made) and after it was all said and done he was let go again, and it was his attorneys belief that they had planned on letting him go no matter what. this man had a great rep for honesty , so great that he ended up leaving the music biz and started a successful comic book company which he later sold and he became an icon. he passed away a few years ago..

Shred4hire · Post by **Shred4hire** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:37 am

his name is Steven Massarsky in case you were wondering.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:50 am

That sounds very truthful and believable. They did it to Vinnie so Vinnie tried to protect himself in VVI (rightfully so) and got fucked from his deal.

The other Invasion members bitching about not getting paid fairly is absurd. After touring costs, how much money could have possibly been left over to pay an opening band ??? Even when they headlined, they were playing small clubs and building the following that Slaughter eventually took full advantage of.

Now Vinnie distrusts everyone including the people who want only success for him and ask only for respect in return.

Unjust Bullshit like this,are the true stories that you always do everything you can ,as a fan, NOT to believe. The realization sucks

Vinnie was fucked twice by scheming bass player/lead vocalist alliances .

The more this puzzle comes together, the more sympathy I have for Vinnie and his dealings in the heartless music business. That doesn't excuse him for treating others like shit though. I'm sure his parents taught him better.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:52 am

We have bounced around this topic before on these forums but always came to the conclusion that Vinnie left because he refused to sign his life away to Kiss. This makes more sense and explains A LOT.

Thanks for backing it up.

Shred4hire · Post by **Shred4hire** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:00 pm

and im certainly sure vinnie is reading this and is baffled that i know all this but i dont really care bout any this , about him or this info, im just stating facts that they actually screwed him and of course thats why hes so bitter. and i guess i would be too since i helped them write songs and they tried to strong arm me out of what i helped them earn and what was rightfully mine. cusano made his mistakes and they got something out of it . i said in the past that there were some sort of contracts signed as to what we will never know because steve is dead, but i promise you there was something. when it comes to this part of vinnie i feel for him.

keepin it real
peace out cb

Shred4hire · Post by **Shred4hire** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:04 pm

ill quote it the way it was put to me " give us the songs or your out of the band" when he said no they of course fired him . and vinnie in turned was advised not to give it to them but of course was also warned they were going to probablly let him go. so vinnie asked for of course advice in what to do to get "back in the band" and naturally steve replied to give them what they want but also advised against it... and well you know the rest. contracts were signed and then i was told it was put to him like this ...."OK .. Now your fired"

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:14 pm

It makes me sick. I have been fucked with job-wise in the last year... Dannii has been fucked over in recent years...I'm sure most of us have been through this type of shit. Most people don't deserve such horrendous treatment.

I wish Vinnie would just trust those of us that still have the will to help him get what he deserves instead of him constantly shooting himself in the foot.

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:47 pm

God, no wonder poor Eric was worried about his standing in Kiss. That's no way to run a "band". Kiss was a band first and a company second, not the other way around.

Gene and Paul are successfull, I love what they've done, but gee, how about some human empathy?

Thanks for sharing that Chris.

Brooklyn_Born · Post by **Brooklyn_Born** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:32 am

This is some serious insight into the inner workings of Kiss particularly Gene & Paul... I think Kiss was a band "First" & a "Business" second but only for a very short time in the very early formative years... '73-76... Once the juggernaut that became Kiss started getting bigger & bigger ('76 - onwards) they were primarily run as a business...Bill Aucoin saw the marketing potential in the Kiss concept and jumped on them..before long the merchandise was everywhere and apart from the Beatles & Elvis Kiss were the only other act to heavily capatilize on their name & image...Gene & Paul are businessman and money is "King" to them.. I believe that most of their decisions are financially driven/motivated with exception to Pauls move into art a few years back... Unfortunately Vinnie became victim to their commitment to have total control over the support members of Kiss ie. Eric & Vinnie & yes I think Chris Bickleys info does put some perspective on Vinnie's bad treatment & it is now very understandable why Eric Carr was insecure...If I were Vinnie I would write the story and get the book out there...he should have a forum to say his piece.. For over 20 years Gene & Paul have bagged Vin in the media and praise for his contribution is very seldom...

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:29 am

Vinnie has nothing to lose. One more court case with Kiss, BIG DEAL.

Vinnie could do this "old school" and print the book himself so the Kiss machine couldn't stop the printer or company from making the book. He would be in total control and it would be the biggest "fuck you" to Gene & Paul ever. The only thing that Vinnie would have to do is not to state anything as fact unless he has solid proof.
That's the kind of thing "some people"

are doing on a podcast about Vinnie.

Vinnie could make a nice amount of cash with a down and dirty book about Kiss.

syncophile42 · Post by **syncophile42** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:07 am

G & P wouldn't care, they would say it was just BS, sour grapes from a sore loser, and the Kiss machine would roll merrily on.

VV would end up with more bad press, but it would be a great read though.

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:11 am

Peter, Ace and Vinnie need to get their books out. Ace is close apparently so we'll see what he says about it all.

Having read a few insights into Ace he's not my favourite human being but when I listen to the Kiss classics, it doesn't matter too much.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:24 am

Hmmmm and the plot thickens!!!! If Vinnie, Ace & Peter did all release books, we'd have 3 against 2!!!! And if Eric was still with us, maybe 4 against 2!!!???

Do it Vinnie! Maybe contact Ace & Peter to pool it all together!

Working title, "The KISS of Death"!!!!!!

syncophile42 · Post by **syncophile42** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:30 am

There was a 1978 Savoy book by Robert Duncan with that title, I think I've still got a copy of it somewhere.

Qpr68 · Post by **Qpr68** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:38 am

Yeah I've got a copy of that

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:39 am

I have that Robert Duncan book as well, the Savoy Kiss of Death. Strange title.

Eric used to bag out Gene and Paul in bars on tour, to fans! Which was poor form on his part, but showed he was happy, yet unhappy too.

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:13 am

you act like vinnie is not led by money as well.. if thats true then why is the guitar 10? and why is a signed xerox 150 bucks?
say what you like about paul and gene.. they kept the band together for nearly 40 years which tells some sort of story.. how long could vinnie keep the band together?

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:24 am

Gene and Paul always had the position of power. Still ,It doesn't excuse their treatment of "employees". You are correct Dino. I guess there are not too many nice people that can keep a multi-million dollar business afloat for 40 years.

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:27 pm

We hear what you are saying Dino. Gene and Paul had a right to power and money, it was their company.

If you invent something on company time it belongs to the comapny. You get your wage and the company gets the millions. That's why they "employ" you. Or you can do it on your own and reap the rewards yourself, which Vinnie did and it self destructed.

Ultimately Kiss is successful and Vinnie is not.

Brooklyn_Born · Post by **Brooklyn_Born** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:06 pm

Vinnie seemingly had two options with Kizz:

1) Be creative, free and write great music that he would be credited for and own the rights to ( or)

2) Sell his soul

I don't blame him for wanting more from the Kiss machine. Peter and Ace during their original tenure had a 25% stake each in the bands Financial success... Gene & Paul were burned by both and never gave the same opportunities to Eric Carr & Vinnie...

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:45 pm

It's funny how Vinnie surpassed both Ace and Peter's musical output in his short tenure. Every greatest hits collection that Kiss puts out consists of 2-3 Vinnie penned tunes. Vinnie should get his due.

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:36 pm

He gets his money but I believe bankruptcy means he doesn't see a lot. I think even kiss themselves want see huge amounts, the record companies have very creative accountants.

doublev · Post by **doublev** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:42 pm

How come it seems to only be vv that claims he dorsnt get his royalties. Des child, diane warren, v poncia, Adam Mitchell, bob ezrin etc don't seem to have a problem.
Rick , In the past I would have argued vvs case but now I know how it is.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:06 am

I think Kiss has creative ways of redirecting Vinnie's cash.

TheGoodDr · Post by **TheGoodDr** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:08 am

I find it strange how there's the perception that Vinnie should 'own' what he wrote FOR KISS. Anyone that is employed by a company and produces something for that company (be it a designer, an artist or a musician), the company OWNS that piece of work. The artist who painted the Solo Album covers (who-ever he is)......he gets a royalty for the publishing of his artwork, but it is KISS who own them. Vinnie's music written for KISS is no different, so I don't buy the sob story from this fraudster that he has been screwed over. Vinnie thought he was being 'smart' by not signing a contract, thinking that by not doing this that somehow he would retain ownership of the music he wrote for G&P because he wasn't an employee. If he had half a brain, BEFORE writing anything for KISS, he should have had a contract drawn up whereby as the author of the song, he retained a % of the rights. Vinnie has only ever screwed himself over.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:21 am

I have to disagree in some respect.In the music industry ,things are different. An artist owns the songs they write. Kiss tried to STRONG ARM Vinnie's rights away from him by giving him ultimatums that Vinnie was smart (or dumb) enough to say NO to.

The artists hired to come up with album covers,etc are commissioned by the band to produce said product. Therefore the band would own that particular painting, picture, etc...
Ken Kelly can sell re-painted Destroyer artwork as far as I know.

That is why so many recording artists RE RECORD their popular song. at one time, the record company commissioned them to make an album. The record company owns that album. for the artist to recieve more money, the re-record the tunes...

Post by **Genebaby** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:02 am

That's why Kiss re-recorded those old tunes for the Japanese market initially, then they were released for Sonic Boom. The new versions of the songs are they ones they'll get royalties for when they are played on TV, etc.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:40 am

..and BINGO was his name-O !!!

TheGoodDr · Post by **TheGoodDr** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:14 am

The re-recording of songs by artists so that can control how that 'recording' of the song can then be used is an entirely different issue than that of a guy coming in to write a song for a band. Like someone else has already posted here, Desmond Childs doesn't seem to whinge about his royalty payments......so why is Vinnie the only one.
The 'music' industry isn't any different (from my perspective) when it comes to a 'hired gun' coming in to lend their talents to a recording. Everyone knows that the money is in the publishing writes, not in the ownsership of the song. Vnnie should have always received $$$ from the publishing of his music......And I'm sure he still was until his last hair-brained attempt at litigation.
I see Vinnie's association with the band as simply someone who was 'comissioned' to help write some catchy tunes

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:25 am

Vinnie was riding a very thin line. I believe that Kiss were trying to have him sign away his royalty rights. Notice that the recent court case decision has Kiss wanting Vinnie's " Lick It Up" rights and royalties to pay for their attorney fees.

As far as OWNERSHIP, I believe that Desmond Child has ownership rights to all songs that he is associated with.