The KEEP... Criss and St. John:

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:05 pm

Pretty horrible stuff but Mark's guitar work is kinda cool (kinda see how Peter would've sounded on Animalize... minus the vocals and lame ass songwriting here).

[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:11 pm

Mark had some fleet fingers for sure. Peter sounds terrible, is that him singing?

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:04 pm

No that's the blonde dude in the pic singing... Michael McDonald (no not that one!)

Some claim David Donato sang for The Keep and used the "Michael McDonald" alias but that's not true. Donato wasn't even involved... although it's easy to believe he'd use an alias so no one would know he's involved...

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:17 am

The version of LOVE FOR SALE on the MARK ST JOHN PROJECT release is SO much better than this.

What's interesting is hearing 2 former members of one of the most successful bands in history making music that is clearly at the amateur level. I've heard hobbiests with better material. It kinda confirms how good Gene, Paul, Ace and Vinnie were at actually WRITING songs!

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:24 am

Not many drummers who are good writers. It amazes me how much kiss parallels the Beatles in a dumber way. Look at peter and ringo.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:51 am

I guess we'll never really know 100%, but the clues are there that Peter didn't really write any of his stuff during his tenure in KISS. It was either written for him or he "co-wrote" it, which probably means he heard the almost finished song and suggested a slight lyric modification.

It's well known that Pendridge wrote the original BECK, which Peter brought to Ezrin who re-worked the lyrics, the composition and added the orchestration.

- Listen to Peter's first solo album Out of Control. Most of the songs are written by Criss/Pendridge and they are sub-par.

- His second solo album Let Me Rock You is mostly written by outside people and the songs are considerably better.

- His third "solo" album, Cat #1, was mostly written by the guys in his band. There's stuff with potential and a couple of listenable songs, but regional-band quality at best.

- His fourth solo One For All...unlistenable. I love the Catman, but the songs he wrote have no hook (...and unrelated to songwriting, his vocal performance is atrocious...)

He just doesn't know how to write a lyric OR a song.

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:33 am

I actually prefer Out Of Control to Let Me Rock You!!!

I must like the stuff Stan writes with Peter!!

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:11 am

Really? I find that interesting. There's a kind of a rough charm to the recordings on OUT OF CONTROL, but the production is so lifeless and the songs (to me) don't feel fully fleshed out.

I like it in the fact that it's way more true to what Peter wants his sound to be than LET ME ROCK YOU, but I just can't totally get past the production.

1031 · Post by **1031** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:19 am

I could never get in to of any of Peters projects, they were pretty much all disappointing to say the least. Peter had very good skills and could have easily got a gig with a great band, expanded is horizons. I think his solo stuff just did more damage than good.

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:21 am

I don't mind the production on OOC and I like the songs. I tried LMRY again a couple of months ago after listening to OOC again and couldn't get into it. I like Jealous Guy of course, that's a good cover.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:08 am

There's NOTHING I like of Peter solo except his '78 solo album... that album actually has some good tunes and doesn't sound like a third rate lounge band like all his other stuff. Cat #1 and One For All are just fukn laughable... not to mention on top of that what a prick Peter is in person (one of the biggest pricks I've ever met famous or not. He should form a band with Vinnie).

And yes, I would credit Pendridge and Ezrin more for Beth... Peter probably added some lyrics at most.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:14 am

doublev2 wrote:Not many drummers who are good writers. It amazes me how much kiss parallels the Beatles in a dumber way. Look at peter and ringo.

I've always drawn a parallel between the Beatles and Kiss... but I suppose Gene planned it that way (but I always thought of Peter as the Pete Best, Eric "Carr" as the Ringo "Starr" and Eric Singer as the stand-in drummer for Ringo, Jimmy Nichol).

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:13 am

The songs on Let Me Rock you are all over the place. It's very disjointed. But the sound is very good.

Dondoubleu3 · Post by **Dondoubleu3** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:05 pm

I remember a period in the 80s and 90s when I just wanted ANYTHING from Peter to come out. The Keep was delayed over and over and over and I got frustrated. I found LMRY and OOC LPs at a record store. I thought they were fun, but I always expected a bit more. I remember writing to Peter through his manager back then, Ron Rainey. Never heard back, but that was waaay before this version of the interwebs.

Be well!

Don W.
3

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:22 pm

Peter sucks. He hasnt done anything legitimate since 1978... except for Paul and Gene allowing him back in the band in 1995. A bitter pitiful 70 year old has been...

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:03 pm

Mark St John has chops of doom!

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:03 am

PinkWiz is so angry lately. Everyone sucks. He wants to smack pipsqueeks.

Need a hug?

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:01 am

erg2 wrote:PinkWiz is so angry lately. Everyone sucks. He wants to smack pipsqueeks.

Need a hug?

No, I just need to rub one out more often...

... a hug would help during that process though. Any takers?

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:27 pm

Hello.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:28 pm

Isn't it amazing that Peter has more musical output than Vinnie ????

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:08 pm

Amazing and sad.

Brooklyn_Born · Post by **Brooklyn_Born** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:19 pm

Peter Criss is more resilient than Vinnie and is much better at forming workable relationships with people.

birnie · Post by **birnie** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:30 pm

poserboy71 wrote:Isn't it amazing that Peter has more musical output than Vinnie ????

I uploaded myself playing guitar to youtube a few yrs ago.
....unless Vinnie proves otherwise, i'm claiming i'm a better guitarist than Vinnie

At least i have current proof i can play

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:34 am

My little basement band has released more music in the last 20 years than Vinnie!

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:33 am

Yeah but I bet Vinnie's created more usernames than all of you combined... give him some credit.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:18 am

birnie wrote:
I uploaded myself playing guitar to youtube a few yrs ago.
....unless Vinnie proves otherwise, i'm claiming i'm a better guitarist than Vinnie
At least i have current proof i can play

Let's see this my brother.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:54 am

I love Peter in the 70s and early 80s but he needed to work with a top top producer. He should have been doing more funk rock in the late 80s like a milder Faith no more rather than working with Mark St John, who is great but Peter is about vibe and Mark is about technique. Could have worked I suppose, but didn't.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:39 am

Peter should've been asked to join Damn Yankees!

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:44 am

haha. The travelling wilburys

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:22 pm

The NOT Keep

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:08 pm

If Peter hadn't let his skills lapse, he was in the right age-range to join the Damn Yankees and make it a true "super-group". But by the end of his days in KISS he had already lost a lot of his aggressiveness and power. He wouldn't have been able to keep up.

However, I like your idea about the Traveling Wilburys. His jazz style, soft touch and background with folkier material would've made that a good fit actually. Too bad all those guys were/are "respected" and wouldn't work with a questionable entity like a post-KISS Criss.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:26 pm

Hell if they weren't gonna officially allow Ringo in the Wilburys Peter didn't stand a chance...

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:35 pm

Yeah no chance

birnie · Post by **birnie** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:43 pm

poserboy71 wrote:
birnie wrote:
I uploaded myself playing guitar to youtube a few yrs ago.
....unless Vinnie proves otherwise, i'm claiming i'm a better guitarist than Vinnie
At least i have current proof i can play
Let's see this my brother.

You don't remember the tasty chops thread???

I uploaded part of the Extreme - "PLay with me" solo, and if you searched my youtube user, you would have found Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon solo too

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:24 am

It escapes me . I will refresh myself soon.

That sounded kinky.

Post by **Genebaby** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:30 am

I really liked the Wilburys album. Sux that Roy passed so soon after it.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:45 am

As I said, there was little chance those guys would have any respect for a "Peter Criss", but I think his drumming would've been perfect for them. I liked them. Not my favorite group, but some cool songs for sure. I also always like Roy and it sucks that he was in the middle of a comeback of sorts when he passed.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:37 am

I still.say peter in the 70s was the unsung hero of kiss. Love the guy.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:54 am

doublev2 wrote:I still.say peter in the 70s was the unsung hero of kiss. Love the guy.

Yes, he used to be badass... check out the end of the video to be reminded! Hell, @ 5:33 he almost kills Gene with his bass drum!

This is one of my fave KISS performances... summed up their essence before they became rich, bloated, trend-followers.

[youtube][/youtube]

Dondoubleu3 · Post by **Dondoubleu3** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:06 pm

I remember Peter was writing a book that was supposed to come out in the late 80s or early 90s called "A Face Without a Kiss". I got delayed over & over, then fell apart. Now I hear he's writing a new one for real. Should have a few interesting stories. Although.... it seems everyone has a book out now.

Dondoubleu3 · Post by **Dondoubleu3** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:06 pm

It got delayed*

ankh · Post by **ankh** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:52 pm

yep,it's caled "makeup to breakup".it should be out by late part of 2012.A writer will help Peter's out, it will be published by Simon and Schuster.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:25 am

@Pink Wiz - Peter was all adrenaline in the early days. He was a swing drummer playing hard rock. It wasn't his sweet spot but it was one of the things that kept the early KISS songs from just plodding along. What he didn't have in hard rock chops he made up for in aggression and energy. That's part of the reason I think he just doesn't have it anymore...at 65 he just doesn't have that aggression and energy.

@Dondoubleu3 - I remember hearing and reading about that book in every interview Peter would give...for years.

@ankh - I hope it comes out this year and I hope it's not as boring and uninformative as Ace's snore-fest was.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:28 am

erg2 wrote: What he didn't have in hard rock chops he made up for in aggression and energy. That's part of the reason I think he just doesn't have it anymore...at 65 he just doesn't have that aggression and energy.

That's pretty much on the money.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:55 am

It's sad though. I think if they had worked as a band and wrote songs together, they could've arranged the songs in a way that Peter could play something cool...but G&P had no interest in supporting someone else and helping them to succeed.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:09 am

I think alot of why Paul and Gene didn't want Peter around was because of his personality... the constant complaining and his temper would get really old after awhile. Then on top of that Peter barely tapping the drums and losing pretty much all of his ability compounded the problem.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:55 am

PinkWiz wrote:I think alot of why Paul and Gene didn't want Peter around was because of his personality... the constant complaining and his temper would get really old after awhile. Then on top of that Peter barely tapping the drums and losing pretty much all of his ability compounded the problem.

I agree. However, Peter was complaining because G&P were offering him up a shit sandwich (lowest paid, least amount of stage time and no songs on Psycho Circus) and constantly telling him he should be happy to be getting what he's getting. I really think they could've prevented the entire Peter fiasco by just letting him have 1 song on the Psycho Circus album and letting him perform it live.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:47 am

I usually wouldn't agree that nowadays Peter should be allowed to write a song, but after that clunker that Paul and Ezrin wrote for him on PC, I'm sure anything Peter brought to the table couldn't have been any worse...

Then I go back and listen to...
♫"The Cat's... Got Nine Lives... He Do"♫ on Criss #1 and I reconsider.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:47 am

I agree. Peter's latest album ALL FOR ONE is a terrible album of terrible songs arranged terribly with terrible production and a questionable vocal performance.

However, Psycho Circus has 3-4 songs that are anywhere from mediocre to just plain bad. If you're going to have a bad song on the album, why not just make it Peter's and keep him happy? Here's another idea...why not just add 1 more song to the album? A CD can hold a lot more than 10 songs. Suddenly Peter is happy, drums a little better and is less of a crybaby all the time.

I fault Gene & Paul as much for driving Peter to be a baby and driving Ace to drink and drugs as I fault Peter & Ace for returning to their bad habits. If Gene & Paul had only been a little more magnanimous, things could've turned out a lot differently...and everyone would've still made a ridiculous amount of money.

PinkWiz · Post by **PinkWiz** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:33 am

oh yeah, Gene and Paul definitely aren't completely innocent...