Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

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metatron
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Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by metatron »

[youtube][/youtube]
@ 22:00
I got Jesus in my fax machine. I saw Ho Chi Minh down @ Burger King. I dated Vinnie Vincent as a Drag Queen. I still don't understand a f**kin' thing.
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Slayer
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Re: Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by Slayer »

He was being unusually nice in his response
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Re: Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by mrblitz »

the stanley clip is at around 22:30
doublev2
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Re: Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by doublev2 »

they always say vv was talented. I think they used to say Vinnie wanted Kiss to be the Vinnie Vincent band but I never heard anything bad about vv's playing and writing in kiss from Paul and Gene. I heard Gene say he didn't like VVI album due to VV's uncontrolled playing but they are always nice about 'the musician' vinnie vincent.
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Re: Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by doublev2 »

no question vv helped kiss a lot but i would not say saved kiss, like vv likes to say. Helped in a huge way - YES. Saved - NO
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poserboy71
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Re: Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by poserboy71 »

doublev2 wrote:no question vv helped kiss a lot but i would not say saved kiss, like vv likes to say. Helped in a huge way - YES. Saved - NO
I would dare say that saying,"Helped in a huge way" constitutes meaning he was a BIG part of saving Kiss.

I was listening to COTN last night. Vinnie's influence and playing is all over that album. LIU is obvious. There are things on those two albums that weren't heard before or after (except Revenge) on most Kiss albums.
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Slayer
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Re: Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by Slayer »

There is no doubt that Kiss would be a much better band with Vinnie's Influence whether playing or only songwriting for them
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Tobakko
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Re: Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by Tobakko »

Like all things with KISS there are reasons certain decisions are made and I get why Paul is being a bit guarded in his response. My take has been this. Vinnie's songs were very instrumental in KISS regaining some momentum. Could someone else have helped and accomplished the same? Sure but I don't think Gene and Paul were capable of turning the tide on their own. But taking the makeup off helped as well. I think if they kept it on the songs on Lick It Up wouldn't have been heard. I also don't feel Vinnie was a good fit for KISS. His playing had to be harnessed to fit them and his look and stage presence was just not meant for KISS. And lets be honest, the songs on Asylum and Crazy Nights are pretty weak. If Vinnie was helping them write I believe the result would've been better songs. I think Revenge proved that. But if Vinnie didn't sue KISS so much maybe they'd be a little more open about his contributions but to be fair, their criticisms of Vin have never been of his talent.
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poserboy71
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Re: Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by poserboy71 »

Correct. You share the opinion of many of us.
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roustabout23
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Re: Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by roustabout23 »

I think that is pretty close to the probably reality of the situation. I think it was a combination of a few factors that lead to KISS not sinking. The removal of the makeup was the biggest aspect of that. They actually were awesomely good at keeping it all under wraps!
MTV virtually took KISS under it's wing (or vice versa) from the moment the makeup came off, clear through the Asylum era... The special event regarding the makeup removal, Lots of play of the LIU videos, heavy promotion of the album. The Animalize Live was magic for them, simulcasting on Westwood One radio Network, MTV, and then the VHS video that I personally rented probably 10k times from my video store. Lots of other factors came in to play, but ultimately, VV was the catalyst to the salvation of KISS. Without his influence, I think they would have petered out after becoming a NOTHING but ballads act.

I discovered KISS during this era. I knew who they were, but LIU, Animalize, Asylum etc were my initial intro to KISS.
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Re: Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by doublev2 »

Vinnie is certainly in top 5 most important contributors to kiss outside original 4. His writing has definitely shaped 80s kiss and his playing was amazing.

As for him saving kiss.. No.
But he sure did an amazing job.
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Re: Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by doublev2 »

Creatures without vv probably would have featured the killers tracks plus thrills in the night. No I still love you, I love it loud and killer. So a great record without vinnie but not as good than with vv. Missing two of the best kiss songs ever without him.
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Re: Paul Stanley Answers... Did Vinnie Vincent Save KISS!

Post by roustabout23 »

Here are my thoughts, now that I am not cloudy from a few drinks last night. COTN would still have been a good album, BUT the tour tanked. They lied in bold face to defraud polygram records whose contract stated it MUST be Gene, Paul, and Ace to be considered a full KISS album. They lied to their fans, they lied to the label, they lied to the whole world. They probably did a lot of lying to VV also. They did whatever it took, no matter the cost to save themselves.
Without VV, the KISS saga would have come to an end sometime in the early 90s. I saw them here in phoenix on the Revenge Worldwide tour in 92. 3500 people in a 22 thousand seat arena. Saw them the next year at the arizona state fair. 2 years later, at the same arena that they played on the revenge tour. With the makeup back on, and the whole regalia.
VV didnt save kiss, but he sure as fuck was the duct tape that kept the thing from completely falling apart. Their biggest chart success, apart from Ace's solo album came with, and immediately after the VV era. That speaks volumes for his influence, even to THIS day where VV songs are unavoidable in the show.
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