Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

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Monty
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Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby Monty » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:09 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYzMxrpYOYY

Vinnie discussion starts at about 1:15:00

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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby shramiac » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:42 am

Confirmation Vinnie wrote Lick it Up before he joined KISS!!!!

BEFORE!!!!!!!!



Still can't stand theose 3 Sides guys though!
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Streetbeat
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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby Streetbeat » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:05 am

Im sure V had most of the LIU album under his belt and G&P just slapped their names on it, there are too much VV melodies
not to be his creation, in fact i think he is undercredited.

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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby shramiac » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:01 am

Im sure V had most of the LIU album under his belt and G&P just slapped their names on it, there are too much VV melodies
not to be his creation, in fact i think he is undercredited.

100%
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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby Genebaby » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:22 pm

Vinnie melodies and cool dissident stuff like Not For The Innocent.
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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby Streetbeat » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:14 am

YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Arjen
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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby Arjen » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:54 pm

The "Gene Vinnie calling all the time" part was cool to hear as well. Makes you wonder if the Gene and Paul "Vinnie was fired" story was fabricated to suit their story. Happens all the time with these guys.

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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby Genebaby » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:57 pm

Yes, it's a little conflicting there for sure
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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby VinceVandergraff » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:03 am

With the caliber of songwriting skill that VV brought into KISS, it put both Gene and Paul into an awkward position. They had already started the new business model with Eric Carr as a new member to be a paid employee, before Vinnie arrived. Yet, Vinnie wrote more material for LIU than Ace probably did during his whole tenure. They were offering Vinnie the same employee-based performance compensation as Eric, plus songwriting royalties. This made it so only Gene and Paul (the employers) would have full decision making power in steering the ship concerning anything and everything KISS related. As far as Gene and Paul have always been concerned, KISS has always been "The Gene & Paul Show", with little regard to other members and their creativity that have helped them get there. Gene and Paul's shrewd and greedy business practices secured them both untold riches, leaving anyone else with crumbs basically. As an artist and songwriter, Vinnie saw this business model as very stifling and limited, due to the fact that KISS would be using his material sort of like a "cash cow". It's easy to suggest from an outsider's perspective that Vinnie would have been better off just biding his time, paying his dues with the band, and accepting what he was being offered. I personally would have liked more KISS music had Vinnie stayed onboard and wrote more. Animalize and Asylum surely would have been better albums had that been the case. Gene and Paul were bitter about losing Vinnie. They both knew Vinnie was an awesome creative songwriting partner, yet they would not make him a partner, and instead wanted to keep him under their thumbs as their employee. Gene and Paul wanted to use Vinnie for his talents to bolster the KISS franchise and catalog with more quality songs, because they both knew Vinnie was a better songwriter than both of them combined. How many songs in the entire KISS catalog did Gene and Paul write together? Vinnie seemingly came in and had the ability to write songs with both of them from day one. Vinnie is/was a truly "gifted" artist, and unfortunately we all lost him much too soon. He got fed up with the business part of it, and lost sight of the enjoyment aspects of playing music, otherwise he'd still be putting out music to this day.

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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby Genebaby » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:47 am

Well said.
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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby shramiac » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:13 pm

Great post Vander!!
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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby Arjen » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:58 pm

Indeed very good post Vince. I just watched one of the VV Q&A sessions of a 94 KISS Expo. He basically confirmed (again) that it was after the pre-production of Animalize it was VV who walked away. He had a nice batch of songs demoed and decided to leave KISS.

Just some speculation here: could it be the KISS office got a nice bill for the studio which VV used and keeping the songs for himself? Well actually shopping around with these songs and getting a deal offered from Chrysalis Records.
Could this be the reason P&G were/are bitter and calling V unethical? Makes sense to me.

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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby VinceVandergraff » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:54 am

Indeed very good post Vince. I just watched one of the VV Q&A sessions of a 94 KISS Expo. He basically confirmed (again) that it was after the pre-production of Animalize it was VV who walked away. He had a nice batch of songs demoed and decided to leave KISS.

Just some speculation here: could it be the KISS office got a nice bill for the studio which VV used and keeping the songs for himself? Well actually shopping around with these songs and getting a deal offered from Chrysalis Records.
Could this be the reason P&G were/are bitter and calling V unethical? Makes sense to me.

you might be onto something here. this very well could be one of the "unethical" reasons Gene & Paul don't discuss about Vinnie's departure, because it would make them look like fools to say "We paid for studio time so Vinnie could demo material for proposed KISS songs, then he took the songs with him." Two things here we already know about Vinnie to be the case are: 1) Vinnie's always been known to use ALOT of studio time writing and recording material. and 2) Hirsch Gardner claimed in a previous Three Sides interview that Vinnie did this very thing with taking the songs (master tapes) with him (the Warrior demos). Bottom line here with this idea is a moral ethical thing. Theoretically, if you pay the bill for an artist to enter a private studio to write and record music, that doesn't mean you own the song publishing or copyrights. You own the tapes, or the recorded medium used by the studio. However, in Vinnie's case, he most likely paid for and brought his own blank reels into the studio with him, allowing him to leave with them in his possession. So, Gene & Paul foot the studio bill for Vinnie to write/record songs, which they fully believe the material garnered will be at their disposal for possible KISS canon. Yet, Vinnie takes the master tapes with him. I could totally see this scenario playing out, and given the employee status Vinnie had with the band, I wouldn't blame him one bit for doing so.

If you worked for a company that payed you a weekly salary to create art, and then you saw that company selling your art with their company name plastered across it reaping millions of dollars, and then in turn only offering you 1% of that, what would you do? I know what I would do. I would begin asking for better compensation, and hold my art hostage unless they were willing to pay.

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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby Arjen » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:42 pm

............
Last edited by Arjen on Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby Arjen » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:49 pm

I probably would have done the same. It happened/happens all the time in this business. Hired bandmembers getting f*cked after delivering the goods. Last year I read a story by Jake E Lee. He worte a big portion of the Bark at the Moon album. Our beloved Sharon said the songs would be credited to Ozzy or he could leave the band. Ah wait I see this story mentioned on wiki:

Bark at the Moon is the only Ozzy Osbourne album on which the songwriting is credited entirely to Osbourne. However, guitarist Jake E. Lee maintains that he composed a significant amount of the album’s music but was cheated out of his writing and publishing claims by Osbourne’s wife and manager Sharon.[8] Lee claims that after he had composed the songs and completed recording his parts in the studio, he was presented with a contract which stated that he would have no claim to any writing or publishing relating to the album. The contract also stated that Lee could not mention this publicly. Lee claims he signed the contract because he had no legal representation and because Sharon threatened to fire him and have another guitarist re-record his parts if he refused.

It seems there are individuals in the business who are even worse than G&P lol

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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby shramiac » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:41 pm

Nooooooooo! Ozzy wrote that whole album by using one finger on a piano!!!!

Just like "Blizzard and Diary" were written by Bob Daisley, Randy and to a fair extent, Lee Kerslake.... Bark at the Moon was written by Bob and Jake.

Bob was such a lazy and poor writer, he was asked to write songs for the three albums that followed! Sarcasim much?

Sharon has rewritten so much of Ozzy's early solo career, it's pathetic! She's inserted herself into stories when she wasn't even there and Ozzy was still married to Thelma. I get nauseous whenever I see Sharon's plastic face or hear her awful nasal voice!

Buy Bob's book "For Facts Sake" to find out the real story!
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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby Arjen » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:46 pm

For Facts Sake is an amazing book and an absolute must have if youre into one or more bands he was in.

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Re: Three Sides of the Coin - Gary Shea talks Vinnie

Postby doublev2 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:49 am

Don't forget vv has so much material as he had not been involved in much before . Gene and Paul putting out an album a year at least for 10 years. But still yeah I agree with this
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