Vinnie and Revenge Album

[aeroflott]

I'm interested in learning more about Vinnie's writing credits on the Revenge album. Is there more info about how this came about?

Really surprised to see he wrote with both Paul and Gene. I had assumed it was just with Gene, who has always seemed to be able to talk rather more positively about Vinnie than Paul has over the years.

Given the acrimonious split back in 84 I'm amazed they (especially Paul) thought to engage with him again to write songs. And given VV's actions in the late 90's, it seems to have done little to building bridges again.

Ah. Just found this on the Unholy Wiki entry:

Simmons stated in his book Kiss and Make-Up:
"Vinnie Vincent came up to me and apologized for causing the band all the grief while he was a member. He wanted to patch things up and wondered if I would consider writing some songs with him.
Sure, I said. I wanted to let bygones be bygones. I called Paul and told him that Vinnie had apparently changed. Paul wrote songs with him as well. But before the album was released, Vinnie was up to his old tricks again. He reneged on a signed deal we had made and decided that he wanted to renegotiate. He eventually sued us and lost. As far as I was concerned, he was persona non grata forever."

Interesting.

[Streetbeat]

Would love to be a fly on the wall back in 91.
There is a picture of Gene & Vinnie during the revenge sessions, did you know that they used the "Revenge" name from him?

[doublev2]

They were both rehearsing at SIR at same time. According to Andre labelle vinnies project was called revenge and kiss wanted to use it

[Genebaby]

And typical Vinnie he could not stick to a deal he made with someone. Why Vinnie, why?

[FlyingVgirl1988]

[shramiac]

There's a picture with Vinnie holding Paul's Ibz Iceman too isn't there?

[Streetbeat]

No that's not from those sessions, those pics are from '95-96 convention era

[wolfgang161272]

VINNIE VINCENT
STANLEY
Vinnie had an incredible touch and an incredible knowledge of the guitar. But left to his own devices he’d hang himself. For somebody who could play so brilliantly and so tastefully, it became more about how much he could play rather than what he played. And, ultimately, I couldn’t understand what he chose to play. And that’s not taking into account all the other stuff about him, which I think has been well documented. SIMMONS
He was a much more accomplished musician [than Frehley]. Understood some jazz. Could play faster. He was a big fan of all that sort of hurricane machine-gun stuff. But he was not as pure in his personality. We wrote “I Love It Loud” together, although he hated me for telling him what to play in the solo. But the guy could write songs. The guy could sing. He could play rings around most anybody. But with all due respect to Vinnie, it was a fucking nightmare. And it continues to be. That guy sued us 14 times and lost 14 times. But I wouldn’t wish his life on anybody. He’s had a lot of grief. A lot of trouble. And I feel sad that he didn’t understand the gift and the opportunity he was given.

[poserboy71]

There's a picture with Vinnie holding Paul's Ibz Iceman too isn't there?

No. That was a cheap Iceman probably at a convention.

[rock1ankh]

Ironically I was thinking of creating a topic about it, I have listened to revenge, to me, Vinnie had already "unholy" ready, and only sold to gene, with lyrics and everything, the instrumental sounds very Vinnie , and the lyrics, is entirely within the Guitars from hell context, I like to imagine her with the voice of vinnie, and the "I just wanna" and "heart of chrome", I think he had a GOOD participation, especially in the instrumental "Heart of Chrome", but this story that "Vinnie Vincent cam up to me and apologized," is bullshit, Simmons knew Vinnie potential to write songs and took advantage of it, nothing wrong, since Vinnie agreed to sell unholy and help the others.

[Slayer]

VINNIE VINCENT

SIMMONS

And I feel sad that he didn’t understand the gift and the opportunity he was given.

THIS

The meaning of this same simple sentence has haunted Vinnie his entire career.

[shramiac]

There's a picture with Vinnie holding Paul's Ibz Iceman too isn't there?

No. That was a cheap Iceman probably at a convention.

No, there was a picture of Vinnie standing in a lounge room, near a doorway that opened to a court yard/back yard.

Thought it was here http://www.vvforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=153 but picture doesn't exist anymore....Sammy????

[FlyingVgirl1988]

Hate me for saying this but I really feel bad that things went this way for him. Truly a great talent.

[doublev2]

yes a great talent. such a shame he has not worked on more projects.

[BigEd]

When I met Vinnie, I personally thanked him for His contributions on " Revenge"....he was soft spoken, very humble and more than happy to chat, I told him how I loved "Heart of Chrome" but he wasn't all that Happy about it's outcome, maybe a disagreement with G&P or the Producer led to Vinnie's unhappiness and that's why he flew the coop ?

[Luxor]

Would love to be a fly on the wall back in 91.
There is a picture of Gene & Vinnie during the revenge sessions, did you know that they used the "Revenge" name from him?

Isn't it safe to say, KISS used Vinnie names for 3 of their albums?

Killers - from the song Killer

Animalize - from Vinnie's song for that album Animal

and of course Revenge (one of the names Vinnie was going to call his 1991 album)

[drmoorejr]

VINNIE VINCENT

SIMMONS

And I feel sad that he didn’t understand the gift and the opportunity he was given.

THIS

The meaning of this same simple sentence has haunted Vinnie his entire career.

Not only the gift of opportunity from KISS and others but the natural born gift of musical talent he has. This is why I think he doesn't care about music anymore. I would give my right nut to play as good as Vinnie played.

[Luxor]

VINNIE VINCENT

SIMMONS

And I feel sad that he didn’t understand the gift and the opportunity he was given.

THIS

The meaning of this same simple sentence has haunted Vinnie his entire career.

Not only the gift of opportunity from KISS and others but the natural born gift of musical talent he has. This is why I think he doesn't care about music anymore. I would give my right nut to play as good as Vinnie played.

But was Gene talking about the "gift" and "opportunity" to be treated like a slave in KISS?

Gene and Paul are so shortsighted. Look at the opportunity they blew. They wanted to rob his talent and steal his songs. If only they had played fairly, they wouldn't have sucked so bad after LIU-up to Revenge and they wouldn't have sucked so bad after Revenge. Kiss hasn't put out a decent album in most KISS fans opinion since Revenge.

Did KISS save any money doing what they did? Hell no, in fact, their stupidity cost them a ton of money.

They put out weak material that didn't sell.

Because the albums weren't selling, the concerts weren't selling very well.

Look at all the songwriters on all those albums. How many co-writers? Other than Bruce or Eric Carr, they weren't being able to screw those others out of songwriting and publishing royalties. Kiss lost out far more on that too. Also, they got far less because the albums didn't sell well.


People even blame Vinnie for not handing over the masters to a company going out of business. And Robert whined that Vinnie was shopping the album to other labels (for them to purchase from Enigma) instead of handing it over to Enigma. Its funny nobody has confronted Gene, Paul or Robert on their statements.

Yes, Vinnie has made alot of mistakes unfortunately.

Look at Bruce. Bruce sold his soul and his nuts to Gene and Paul. They spat him out for the reunion. And even spit on him at the final show by not even flying him out there and acknowledging him to the fans.

Thank goodness Bruce got his parents inheritance and his brothers or where would he be? Gene and Paul showed what loyalty gets ya. SH*T ON

[Genebaby]

Great rant. Did you not read where Vinnie had a deal, one he clearly liked, but renegged, as he has done to others in the past? He blew himself and any further chances with KISS. At least they put out an album that year, he didn't.

[Luxor]

Great rant. Did you not read where Vinnie had a deal, one he clearly liked, but renegged, as he has done to others in the past? He blew himself and any further chances with KISS. At least they put out an album that year, he didn't.

Are you talking about Enigma? Hasn't that been covered enough around here?

Hell, Robert is on record talking about their tour plans, video plans etc. Why do you think Vinnie was trying to get Hollywood Records etc to buy the master from Enigma?! Vinnie was doing everything he could to save the album.


Or are you talking about "Revenge" .... and if so, how do you know he "clearly liked" the deal? Here's the deal. If Gene and Paul had offered him what he should get... full songwriting and publishing credit there would be no problem ... would there?

Look how bad they screwed up with their greed in the "Contract From Hell". They not only wanted to steal his publishing, but they wanted to steal all the songs he wrote prior to being in KISS etc. And of course all the other ridiculous things they had in there that made the contract un-signable.

Is it that hard to call out Gene and Paul for their greed and stupidity? They cost themselves (yet again) another great album.

I wish Vinnie would have taken less of a deal and replaced Bruce on the album like Gene wanted. It would have been great to see Vinnie back in KISS. But while great for me and KISS fans, Vinnie would have been miserable letting them "win".