Prove It Or Shut Up

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:32 am

"O.K." EVERYONE, With the healthy debate lately we need to come to some kind of agreement.

Should we hold everyone to a higher standard when it comes to proving their statements ?
When something is merely an opinion, greater care has to be taken in expressing so.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:59 am

I love you brutha but again this isn't about a consensus of what people want. This is Vic's Place as he runs and pays for everything out of his own pocket. It's ok for people to have a voice and influence the direction and I respect your efforts in this area but again in the end it should go the direction that Vic wants and rightfully so. Just like it was appropriate to go in the direction that Dino wanted at DoubleV.

If we were co-owners of a company or entity the board of trustees might take a vote on the direction of the particular company but that is not what we have or are here.

I believe that your heart is totally in a constructive place here and that your intentions are great but I don't feel that any of us have a vote here on this because we don't have any financial skin in the game.

* A person does have the election to ignore something that they dont like
* Debate the topic respectfully without personally insulting the person with the opposing opinion
* A person has the right to leave and go elsewhere if they don't like what they see

There are a lot of topics that don't interest me here but I would never suggest that they be taken down as there are other people beside myself that may and do enjoy the topics. I just move on to the next topic that does interest me.

Your a great guy and I wish that this "proof topic" didn't make you unhappy but I wanted with respect to you share my opinion from a different vantage point.

You are a respected and valuable member here and we do care how you feel

Kev

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:44 am

Thanks for the demeanor of your input, Kevin. I appreciate it. I agree that it is Vic's forum but I do not agree with the attack on Vinnie's personal life.

O.K., Let's just start making careless statements about everyone and everything.

Let's not worry about personal attacks on relationships that aren't our business.Just because we like Vinnie as an artist does not give us any right to blurt out shit about his marriage , his daughters, his relationship with his parents, etc...
We have people here that have made pointed accusations towards Vinnie. They have not earned the right to make them simply because they did not live the experience with Vinnie and Diane.
I understand the curiosities because I have them. Discussing them is one thing. The name calling and accusations are another.

People can be offended over my dick jokes but just remember this, We are on a fan forum about a guitarist that wrote some of the most vile and sexually explicit material that helped shape our minds through the decades.
My posts are like a Bible sermon of Vinnie Vincent lyrics.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:23 am

poserboy71 wrote:Thanks for the demeanor of your input, Kevin. I appreciate it. I agree that it is Vic's forum but I do not agree with the attack on Vinnie's personal life.
I understand where your coming from but all of us have slagged Vinnie hard publicly at one time or another including me. The fact that both you and I are mellower about Vinnie's perceived faults may be a temporary trend or it may be a permanent but only time will tell and as we both know not everyone agree and some of us including you have been hurt by Vinnie. The Net-Net is I'm overall not big on censorship.

O.K., Let's just start making careless statements about everyone and everything. Let's not worry about personal attacks on relationships that aren't our business.Just because we like Vinnie as an artist does not give us any right to blurt out shit about his marriage , his daughters, his relationship with his parents, etc...
Well that is a personal opinion and value. I agree with you overall but the truth be said you and I and many others here have at one time or another done just that. People can and do change and maybe you and I have both changed or mellowed a bit on our angst towards Vinnie. If the man is mentally ill it makes sense that the more that is apparent that our feelings might evolve about him and his actions and gestures.
We have people here that have made pointed accusations towards Vinnie. They have not earned the right to make them simply because they did not live the experience with Vinnie and Diane.
That is your opinion and it is fair for you to respectfully share that in a debate but none of us other than Vic should be telling another member what they can or can't say in regards to their feelings or opinions. If you don't agree share your wisdom respectfully but it is up to that individual and the others that hear your voice to decide.
I understand the curiosities because I have them. Discussing them is one thing. The name calling and accusations are another. Ahem, calling a member a cahunt for posting things that you don't like or agree with is just that. Again I have done the same thing in the past and I was wrong. You're an articulate and smart dude, debate the opposing viewpoints in a respectful manner and win the war of public opinion. People will choose for themselves but we shouldn't be telling anyone what they should think or what they can do. There are few rules here and that's the way I think that Vic would like to keep it.

People can be offended over my dick jokes but just remember this, We are on a fan forum about a guitarist that wrote some of the most vile and sexually explicit material that helped shape our minds through the decades.
My posts are like a Bible sermon of Vinnie Vincent lyrics.
We have all done this and I have your back here. But as a personal example I'm not into the homo talk but you and some others enjoy the playful homo banter so I move on. It doesn't hurt anyone and it is fun for those who like to play that way. I have never suggested that anybody not play gay because it isn't any of my fucking business and isn't directed at me.

The Vinnie Vincent Fan Forum started as a place to share our thoughts and opinions on the man that this forum is dedicated to without censorship. I know that you and I ideally would also like this to be the forum of truth but in reality there can be more that one version of the truth. On the subject of what happened the night that Vinnie was arrested most of what is discussed is assumptions and the responsible thing is for us all to frame things correctly that way. There is an etiquette and respect that we all may prefer but Vic seems to favor mutual respect and etiquette rather than it being a law and I agree with Vic.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:47 am

Right or Wrong,Someone was called a C U N T simply because she aimed accusations directly at me . I let it roll off my back months ago, didn't say a word when she came back, but when she renewed her accusation , she was put in her place. She crossed the line of etiquette and I had enough of her bullshit.

Also,Calling Vinnie a wifebeater (another personal accusation

) stems from her supposed own abusive relationship plus the fact that Vinnie supposedly didn't pick her over other females (Marlowe, etc...) to have some internet fun. I was playing very nicely until she did those things.

I don't believe I have ever spoken ill of Vinnie's family relations. I have been pissed about how he has treated fans and business partners (because we have seen PROOF) but I have always steered clear of his family .

Calling someone a wife beater is FAR WORSE than calling someone a C U N T or an ASSHOLE. You don't go up to someone and say, "You are acting like a WIFE BEATER". Sometimes, however, people do act like assholes and C U N T S .

Wife beater is a term that doesn't easily slide off of someone's back and is unfair to Vinnie unless you can show me some FACTS. The term "WIFE BEATER" is NOT an ASSUMPTION, it is an accusation.
We will never get those FACTS simply because Diane and Vinnie would never come here and discuss their situation with us .Why would they ? They probably have two versions of TRUTH right there and we don't fully know either so it is silly to speculate. They are human beings that had a fight.
Would any of you like your next disagreement discussed here at the VVFF ?

I believe Vic should POLICE the forum a little better and protect Vinnie as much as ,or more than, some fucking troublemaking slit

.

VVJunkie and ReneRoxx have always been incredibly respectful and acted like ladies while letting the boys be boys.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:23 am

I have used the word C U N T in my life and usually for the same reason that you indicated that you chose it. That word seems to work many women up more than any other word that can be thought of LMFAO

Whether the phrase "Wife Beater" is worse than C U N T again I believe is a matter of opinion.

Rick, again I agree with most of what you say here except for the justification that you feel to take things into your own hands if Vic doesn't when you think that he should.

This isn't the "Poserboy" Vinnie Vincent Tribute Forum even though all of us are fans of yours and that would likely be a lot of fun too

When you open that website or fan forum when we join we will roll 100% by your rules but here we all need to roll by Vic's Rules!

Again, I support your action against someone that you feel acted out towards you just not here if you have been asked by the owner of the forum to refrain from doing it at his forum.

I agree that Tina and Rene are very cool and class acts for tolerating us being the vulgar SOB's that we all are!

Your a cool dude and I know that we all will over come this

Kev

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:25 am

Thanks Kev. There is really nothing to overcome. I'm not really heated about anything.
Just explaining how I feel.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:36 am

Good enough for me Rick!
I hope that you have a great weekend bro.
Thank you for your vast contributions here and everything that you always do to make this such a fun community to be apart of.

This is a great place because of the many and collective efforts of everybody here!

Happy Saturday here in America

Kev

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:57 am

Just for the record, Our poll at the top of the page is 100% in support of having PROOF with your statements and carefully stating when you have an opinion.

Post by **Genebaby** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:13 pm

Rickster,

I loves ya man but the premise of this thread is totally crazy.

NOBODY runs a message board like a courtroom. This isn't the Vinnie Vincent Wikipedia - All Facts, All The Time.

If we made that change we would have to rename this The Most Boring Forum In The World.

Look at the very simple rules here, be nice to each other and no porn, that's not very hard to remember.

So for the last time, please everyone drop the opinion Vs fact stuff, we're all adults and this wasn't a problem until recently, lets make it a problem no more.

I don't like to be heavy handed, I feel I shouldn't have to with a fairly small and cool family of people here. It's that easy going approach which let me let you run over the rights of others with a tank, mainly about the subject of that fateful night. For this I'm sorry and I'm making amends right now, as I've been trying to the last couple of days.

It's not really about this being "my" place, with such a small set of rules to live by it's pretty much everyone's place. Everyone who can be mature enough to respect their fellow man. I'm not into telling people they can't say something, so I'm not going to let someone else do that anymore.

Kev has some great points above. Perhaps over time the thoughts and feelings of the older members, especially those from DoubleV, may have mellowed and changed. Where that goes, nobody knows. The world is still filled with people who are fresh to the VVFF and their anger towards Vinnie is too, much like we were. This place is for all kinds of Vinnie fans, the angry, the happy, the indifferent, what have you.

As Kev said, many of us have given it to Vinnie with both barrels and even the spare .38 in the back of the drawer. Everyone will always have that right, regardless if others have "made their peace" or not.

Myself, I'm semi indifferent to Vinnie these days. I am disappointed majorly in the shit he's pulled over the years, and I think he has talent like few other people, and that it's been wasted for the most part. I give it to him in posts these days in a "prove me wrong" kind of way, hoping he'll read that I bag on him and that he might act on it. You can dream.

C U N T is a pretty bad word, especially to females. It is a word a lot of them hate to hear, especially directed at them. Your views on its use are your own, you can justify it how you like, but it's not a casual thing to most ladies.

Wife beater is a term Vinnie has been branded with all over the internet, right or wrong. We are certain he hit Diane. Hence, he's a wife beater. A low life piece of shit, all that kind of thing, it was a new low in his life, and if people want to discuss it they can, in any which way they want to. And they don't have to preface it with a disclaimer about opinion Vs fact. I will defend someones right to say this to the end. You have the right to ignore it and keep looking at other things.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:15 pm

Personal attacks are FALLACIOUS.
ANYBODY WHO HAS EVER TAKEN an English 1C (critical thinking and composition) class knows that namecalling, and building up fake motivations to knock down someone's argument (Strawman) are all MISLEADING LOGIC.

Enough with the ad hominem, the character, and gender attacks on me!!! It has absolutely nothing to do with the legal case made against Vinnie Vincent.

My gender is irrelevant to Vinnie Vincent.
My character is irrelevant to Vinnie Vincent.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:04 am

I'm all for all topics being open, my point has always been to preface your statements with IMO and don't dismiss someone else's statement of "opinion". I thought this was a friendly, friend-filled forum. But lately I've felt like half the posts are people telling me about how I'm wrong on a topic and spouting facts then telling me I'm wrong when I question their expertise.

It's cool to have the conversation. It's shit to allow false information to flourish. That's like being back in 5th grade.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:03 am

KissMyAss wrote:Personal attacks are FALLACIOUS.
ANYBODY WHO HAS EVER TAKEN an English 1C (critical thinking and composition) class knows that namecalling, and building up fake motivations to knock down someone's argument (Strawman) are all MISLEADING LOGIC.

Enough with the ad hominem, the character, and gender attacks on me!!! It has absolutely nothing to do with the legal case made against Vinnie Vincent.

My gender is irrelevant to Vinnie Vincent.
My character is irrelevant to Vinnie Vincent.

Just the facts. YOU are a shit-stirring trouble maker.
No one here knows the facts enough to call the man a wife beater.
I stand by everything I have said about you because you have laid out the proof for all to see.

Post by **Genebaby** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:28 am

Did anybody even read what I wrote above? I am getting into a state of bewilderment. It's been 2 and a half years of the VVFF now, when did things get broken?

The only freedoms people don't have is to piss on someone else, and the porn thing, this isn't the place for that.

Do you two guys really want me to send out and enforce a proclaimation that everyone must preface things they say with "IMO" or "I know this as fact because...."?

That reminds of me of the demands Vinnie was making when he took over DoubleV. He wanted people to sign up to DoubleV with their real full name and address, when they clearly don't have to do that. It's a message board on the internet, it's public and you can use a pretend name if you choose, but Vinnie wanted to make it law.

It's not gonna happen. There was never a problem before and there shouldn't be one now, lets just go back to our usual programme please.

PS. With respect, Vinnie is a wife beater.

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:17 am

Rick,
I can't believe that you keep provoking this shit. Your responses at this juncture are not proving any points in your favor.

You don't seem yourself man - relax! You have repeatedly said that your not fuming about this but your responses indicate otherwise - IMHO

Kev

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:08 pm

I dont quite understand this. I am guessing rick doesnt like it when vv is accused of hitting his wife.
Its not like anyone is really bringing it up often and I dont see the problem. Rick you made your point and I dont think its going to be a problem.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:42 am

I'm not saying I want it as a law. I'm saying it annoys me and that it would be polite behavior. Common courtesy, if you will.
When people say Gene and Paul didn't attend Eric Carr's funeral, I find that annoying. I'm not saying they don't have the right to spew ignorance. I'm just saying that wouldn't it be nice if they'd say "Do you know if it's true that they didn't?"

When people say Eric Carr died of a blood clot caused by stress...which is extremely ignorant...because none of us have even seen a medical report, much less know how to read and interpret one. As a person that went through a similar experience I was told by my doctors what caused blood clots and stress wasn't on that list. (Not that they told me EVERYTHING about blood clots.) How about "I heard that Eric's blood clot was caused by stress."

I know these things aren't going to happen because, in general, people are ignorant and want to feel like they have information that makes them important and intelligent.

What I'm trying to say is that I start out each time very nicely saying, "I'm not X, but from what I've heard or from how I understand it or IMO, that is incorrect." I try not to jump all over them and shoot them down. I'm immediately jumped on like a pack of grade school maloofs, "Uh-uh. Cuz I know and YOU'RE wrong!"

I suppose I should just do what you say and ignore it, but the proliferation of false information on a board where we are all supposed to be friends is crazy to me. If this were any of the other KISS boards I'd be in full attack mode on their asses and dancing circles around them but I'm polite and behaved here in your home.

1031 · Post by **1031** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:52 am

Here's the problem with only posting or commenting if its proven 100% fact's on various Vinnie subjects.
And I am propitiously avoiding the Domestic charges.

Box set: you can only say you or someone you 100% know did not get theres, because you do not have 100% proven fact no others shipped. Its possible someone some where got one.

The guitars: You cant say none was built or shipped because no one has 100% poof this did not happen.

The KIss contract: I know of no one who has seen or has a copy of the Kiss contract.

The other guitars: as where they are who has them what they were. You can only comment on what is 100% proven.

why Vinnie did what he did in any situation: unless you are Vinnie or was there or have a direct witness , again off limits.

This can go on and on, basically unless you can provide 100% proof on any Vinnie subject

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:22 am

I agree. And I'm not saying anything should be off limits for discussion. What I'm saying...and this will be my last time saying it and then I will begin the ignoring of all things...is that if "YOU" make a statement as if to be "FACT" but I politely refute it because it is clearly not a fact, just be an adult and admit that what you posted was not "FACT".

But it doesn't matter. It's clear that I am in the minority here. I wanted true, honest discussion where I could post about my personal experience with a domestic "violence" situation without a NOT-A-LAWYER posting 3 pages of legal jargon copied from who-knows-where on the internet telling me about the law and THEIR interpretation of it. And then telling me I'm still wrong when I suggest there are numerous flaws to posting something like that...not to mention I wasn't even discussing legal precedent.

I wanted true, honest discussion about Eric Carr's passing and how I was hospitalized for a blood clot myself and MY experience. Instead I got multiple people posting insisting I was wrong, that they knew for a fact that it was stress that caused Eric Carr to develop a blood clot which in turn caused his hemorrhage. Who cares how true or false or the fact that I was trying to debate the merit of that.

I wanted true, honest discussion on Gene & Paul attending Eric Carr's funeral, when I asked if they had indeed attended as I had heard. Multiple posts about how they didn't and I was wrong. VERY insistent that they knew Gene and Paul didn't attend. And then someone posted a firsthand account of the event and that Gene, Paul, Ace and Bruce all attended. Then it was corroborated by someone else AND a link to a news article.

I'm just more dumbfounded by human nature that we must insist on chiming in, insist on being "right" and insist others are "wrong" when so often none of us...myself included...ever really are.

And I just thought this place was a little different. That we wanted to DISCUSS these things, not force false information down eachother's throats regardless of it's validity.

But as I noted, this is my final post on the matter. I have said my peace. If someone says something that is questionable, I will not question it and allow disinformation to flourish.

Stepping down off of my soap-box.

1031 · Post by **1031** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:41 pm

peace..... and out

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:33 pm

ERG2,
I don't want anyone censored or silenced. A friendly, respectful debate is how we learn in life and you are 100% correct when it is clear that we are wrong we should admit it, own it and then move on. No shame there as it happens to everyone sometimes. Recently I made a post regarding Silvertone Monarch Guitars evolving into the Washburn Preacher Guitar and both Vic and Rick remembered that Paul Stanley had 1 or 2 Prototypes of this guitar with Ibanez and Washburn before the Silvertone. I was wrong so I acknowledged it and moved on.

For the record on the posts that you mentioned my memory says that you did what you indicated above and things didn't get ugly until after you had been disrespected repeatedly. You never ever should spoken to in such a condescending manner.

Kev

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:40 pm

Slayer wrote:Rick, I can't believe that you keep provoking this shit.

Responding to other people's comments is not provocation.

Slayer wrote:Your responses at this juncture are not proving any points in your favor.

I beg to differ . All may not understand , SOME GET IT CLEARLY.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:48 pm

I get where Rick is coming from! Rhianna/Chris Brown incident is a prime example. No doubt he's a "Richard Cranium" but if I remember, he stated that SHE started hitting him after he got a text from another woman. For all we know she might have been hassling him for hours?

RnB singer Chris Brown will reportedly plead self-defence in his assault case against his ex girlfriend Rihanna.

A source tells Life & Style magazine, "Chris is already building his case.

Gallery - Who dunnit? Rihanna or Chris Brown?

"He's saying she threw a phone at him, then hit him in the head and basically just lost it. He's saying she attacked him."
Darren Kavinoky, a criminal defence attorney in LA, said of Brown's defence: "Unless there's some indication that she was enraged to the point that she physically threatened him, I think he'd have a tough time with that defense.

"If it goes to court, ultimately it would be up to a jury to decide."

What does everyone remember, mean ole Chrissy beat up poor defenceless Rhianna! Only they know what really happened! Funny that they're back together! IMO!!!!

But what do I know, I wasn't there!

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:01 pm

EXACTLY.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:56 pm

Well no one is talking about it now so we can move on.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:56 pm

Slayer wrote:ERG2,
I don't want anyone censored or silenced. A friendly, respectful debate is how we learn in life and you are 100% correct when it is clear that we are wrong we should admit it, own it and then move on. No shame there as it happens to everyone sometimes. Recently I made a post regarding Silvertone Monarch Guitars evolving into the Washburn Preacher Guitar and both Vic and Rick remembered that Paul Stanley had 1 or 2 Prototypes of this guitar with Ibanez and Washburn before the Silvertone. I was wrong so I acknowledged it and moved on.

For the record on the posts that you mentioned my memory says that you did what you indicated above and things didn't get ugly until after you had been disrespected repeatedly. You never ever should spoken to in such a condescending manner.

Kev

And really, that's all I am saying. I want to discuss EVERYTHING. But it seems like there are people that insist on being right when they may or may not be...or worse, when they are ridiculously wrong. I expect that on other boards, but have been surprised in the last month or so how it's been creeping up here on this forum.

I'm a big enough person to admit I do not know everything about ANYTHING. I can speak authoritatively about my profession (digital printing and design) and I've known a lot about KISS, but only a fool thinks he cannot learn more or be wrong about something.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:00 am

Kisstrooper · Post by **Kisstrooper** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:40 am

I think the C word is quite an ugly term for a place us males spent 9 months trying to get out of and the rest of our lives trying to get back in......

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:03 am

For a person that said I was going to shut up about it, I guess I just can't...

I really do WANT to have discussions, my bottom line is that lately it hasn't been discussions...it's felt more like a handful of posters lecturing me and me having very strong suspicions that they don't really know what they are talking about. When trying to debate, no quarter will be given. So what do I do? Just walk away and let everyone on the board think the wrong info is the right info? From here on out, I'm told that answer is yes.

As far as the word flower is concerned, I've always felt words only have the power you allow them to have. I use foul language and offensive terms sometimes only because I KNOW it will trigger an emotional response. Once that response is triggered...I have defeated you. There are no words anyone on here can say to me that would truly piss me off because nobody on here knows enough of my personal business to be able to "attack" me in a way to cause an emotional response. Whenever you see a post from me and it seems like I am pissed...most likely I'm bored and seeing how far I can push you to the point of cracking. (Dismantling people can be SO easy.)

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:21 am

here's some fucking proof

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:26 am

i mean here. VV doesn't seem to need proof calling someone 'a toxic indidual' with NO PROOF!!!

Message From Vinnie Vincent
From: Vinnie Vincent
by Vinnie vincent
Posted: June 23, 2011

Dear Everyone,

I thank you for helping me face my darkest struggle. You were there during my loneliest time when I was hopelessly lost with no direction, You were there to help me keep the last of my faith from breaking Your message of love became the moments that I will always remember. VV

I am happy to announce that all charges alleged against me were dropped and the case dismissed. Unfortunately and very sadly I was falsely charged.

I am also happy to announce the doublev.forumco.com is reopen.

Everyone is welcome with the exception of, in my opinion, a very disturbed, dangerously obsessed and toxic individual, who is a former member and one time moderator of my doublevforum who unfortunately continues to perpetuate his poisonous and fabricated stories in other avenues simply to inflict and cause hurt upon me and my family seemingly to satisfy his own agenda. I humbly ask u all 2 stay away from this cancer, for there are better and more uplifting things in life that are worth your precious time and devotion than this. I know in my heart that you are better than this. I hope 2 see it come to pass.

To all of the "truly genuine" friends and fans who sent me their heartfelt messages of support and love during my hurting time, I will answer each of you. I ask that you give me some time.

I will see u all on the board.

I send my love to each and all of you, wherever you are in the world and to all of you who have suffered from the earthquake in Japan and Haiti, I am with you in love and spirit.

VINNIE VINCENT

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:29 am

the only moderator vv had was spyder. I was admin so I wonder who it was that we were to stay away from???

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:40 am

erg2 wrote:As far as the word flower is concerned...

I think I just moderifiederated!!! Damn you censorship!!!

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:43 am

Everyone is free to speak their mind here but as always be mindful and respectful of others.

Abuse will not be tolerated, play nice, talk about Vinnie and all will be well.

People of all ages read the forums here. This is not a porn site, porn has nothing to do with Vinnie, or anything that the VVFF stands for, so please refrain from posting images of this nature.

Thanks

Guys,

These are the rules. Calling someone a flower comes under the first part, which is not really restrictive, it's just about mutual respect.

This means nobody can tell anyone what they can or can't discuss, it's nobody's perogative. If it pertains to Vinnie, it can go in one of the many Vinnie areas. Other stuff can go in the lounge. It's fairly straightforward.

Now, on the subject of proof, once again. It is not something that will be asked of the members here.

Correct me if I"m wrong (I really like it when people do that) but the issue with proof arose from one certain member who arrived recently and seems to have gone. They would accept nothing but their own statements and gave no quarter. No skin off my nose what they were writing, I either accepted it or I ignored it, or I had something to say and I said it. Still, they are no longer around.

I don't recall anyone else refusing to believe they might be wrong. Usually if somone says something and someone bothers to correct them they are cool about it, no?

Post by **Genebaby** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:54 am

shramiac wrote:I get where Rick is coming from! Rhianna/Chris Brown incident is a prime example. No doubt he's a "Richard Cranium" but if I remember, he stated that SHE started hitting him after he got a text from another woman. For all we know she might have been hassling him for hours?

RnB singer Chris Brown will reportedly plead self-defence in his assault case against his ex girlfriend Rihanna.

A source tells Life & Style magazine, "Chris is already building his case.

Gallery - Who dunnit? Rihanna or Chris Brown?

"He's saying she threw a phone at him, then hit him in the head and basically just lost it. He's saying she attacked him."
Darren Kavinoky, a criminal defence attorney in LA, said of Brown's defence: "Unless there's some indication that she was enraged to the point that she physically threatened him, I think he'd have a tough time with that defense.

"If it goes to court, ultimately it would be up to a jury to decide."

What does everyone remember, mean ole Chrissy beat up poor defenceless Rhianna! Only they know what really happened! Funny that they're back together! IMO!!!!

But what do I know, I wasn't there!

On this subject, you don't need to be there to know he did beat a girl, and he went far too far. The pictures speak for themselves. Maybe there was something else going on as she didn't seem too critical and went back to him in the end. Crazy, I can't think of a reason but a lot of women just don't want to leave an abusive man.

poserboy71 · Post by **poserboy71** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:56 am

erg2 wrote:
As far as the word flower is concerned, I've always felt words only have the power you allow them to have. I use foul language and offensive terms sometimes only because I KNOW it will trigger an emotional response. Once that response is triggered...I have defeated you. There are no words anyone on here can say to me that would truly piss me off because nobody on here knows enough of my personal business to be able to "attack" me in a way to cause an emotional response. Whenever you see a post from me and it seems like I am pissed...most likely I'm bored and seeing how far I can push you to the point of cracking. (Dismantling people can be SO easy.)

Exactly how I feel.

MY VVFF NON-SEXUAL HUBBY !!!!

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:46 am

@PB71- You complete me.

@Genebaby- It was more than just Brainsaw. There was a post where someone mentioned Eric's blood clot was caused by stress. I posted that I really wasn't sure if that was possible and then 2 other people chimed in telling me it was true. I'm not a doctor, but I have lived through the blood clot experience and mentioned that I had never heard of such a thing and maybe they might be saying something not exactly right. NOPE. They insisted. I love Eric Carr and it's weird we'd love to perpetuate the idea that stress would cause a blood clot to form and then kill the man. It's unprovable and undocumented. I've never even heard that posted anywhere else in the history of KISS on the internet. And yet they kept insisting. So I eventually dropped it.

Then later there was talk of Eric's funeral and how G&P didn't attend. I gently suggested that they might be wrong because I had read online that they did attend. NOPE. They KNEW for a fact that G&P didn't attend. That is, until Ed came on to tell first hand his experience and post someone else newspaper article detailing the funeral with G,P&A all in attendance.

And then the whole legal discorse on domestic abuse. I was just trying to tell the story of what happened in my family. NOPE. A 3-page article on the "law" and why my story didn't hold up. Fuck that. I just won't share any personal stories anymore.

I never jump out and say "DUDE, YOU'RE WRONG. I'M RIGHT." But that is just what I feel was starting to happen around here lately. Before it was back-and-forth discussion. "Here is what I heard" or "This is what happened to me". From all the different forum members.

And I think what Rick has been trying to get at is, instead of making a sweeping statement of fact that Vinnie is a wifebeater, let's be a little more diplomatic and say, "I don't care what Diane did to start it, Vinnie was a douchebag to raise his hand to a woman. That's what I say!" But we all understand that we can't control the thoughts and minds and actions of others...nor do we want to. We just want this place to be...not classier because Rick and I have very little class...but smarter and better. For the most part, the people on this board seem really intelligent other than a few turds in the punchbowl. Let's show the internet that we are INTELLIGENT assholes.

doublev2 · Post by **doublev2** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:28 pm

yeah the eric carr thing is certainly not fact. its an assumption I guess.
the vv thing is fact that his wife reported it to the police. I would guess Diane would be in a lot of trouble if she faked it and lied to the police.. surely Mr Vincent with all his suing would have taken her down for the 'lies' he says were dropped. Anyway I just assume and I don't admit to totally know or care. I just hope its not true.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:59 pm

Not mad at anyone. This is a forum about VV.

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:05 pm

shramiac wrote:I get where Rick is coming from! Rhianna/Chris Brown incident is a prime example.

But what do I know, I wasn't there!

I got a vision of you on your porcelain throne, delivering a number-2 while reading the trashy gossip mags...Classy eh?

metatron · Post by **metatron** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:16 pm

Just for the record

http://www.cebudoctorsuniversity.edu/colleges/medicine/hospital/cardio/chua11.html wrote:Why do clots form in the body?
Blood in the body is in the liquid form, circulating efficiently inside the veins and arteries, providing essential nutrients and oxygen to tissues and organs in the entire body. Blood has to be in a normal dynamic motion. When the flow is slowed down, for whatever reason, the blood thickens and clots. Blood clots are caused by one or a combination of factors, like idiopathic (cause unknown; some people are more prone to form blood clots than others), smoking, stress, high cholesterol, dehydration, stress, varicose veins, lack of physical exercise, a bedridden state (following surgery or from chronic illness), and pregnancy, with the enlarged uterus compressing the large veins, slowing down the flow and causing clots. Cancer also makes the patient more prone to blood clots.

shramiac · Post by **shramiac** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:50 pm

metatron wrote:
I got a vision of you on your porcelain throne, delivering a number-2 while reading the trashy gossip mags...Classy eh?

I NEVER read on the crapper! That's disgusting!!!!! Plus with a high fibre diet you're not in there for very long!!!! And I can say that with 100% knowledge!

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:35 am

metatron wrote:Just for the record

http://www.cebudoctorsuniversity.edu/colleges/medicine/hospital/cardio/chua11.html wrote:Why do clots form in the body?
Blood in the body is in the liquid form, circulating efficiently inside the veins and arteries, providing essential nutrients and oxygen to tissues and organs in the entire body. Blood has to be in a normal dynamic motion. When the flow is slowed down, for whatever reason, the blood thickens and clots. Blood clots are caused by one or a combination of factors, like idiopathic (cause unknown; some people are more prone to form blood clots than others), smoking, stress, high cholesterol, dehydration, stress, varicose veins, lack of physical exercise, a bedridden state (following surgery or from chronic illness), and pregnancy, with the enlarged uterus compressing the large veins, slowing down the flow and causing clots. Cancer also makes the patient more prone to blood clots.

I'm not saying to go online and copy a paragraph from the internet. And I'm not trying to be a jerk here. That's like saying 5 million things have been shown to cause cancer and the internet will list every single one of them because the internet collects all data. I was in the hospital with a blood clot following a procedure. I spoke to a couple of doctors. That doesn't make me an expert by any stretch, but neither mentioned stress and none of the materials they gave me in the hospital to read mentioned stress. And I'm not saying it's out of the realm of possibility...but the guy had cancer and multiple surgeries. Can people use their heads?

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:48 am

Ok. you've driven the point across.

You're better than me

I'm stupid..

I've already shut up....

Please quit

Please..

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:00 am

I'm not better than anyone. I want to have conversations on here with you KMA, but I don't want you (or anyone else that isn't a professional) to squash MY opinion with THEIR opinion. And posting a link to a website or copying a paragraph from a website isn't FACT. Question EVERYTHING people! How do you know the person that wrote that internet article wasn't a fucking lunatic or a moron? How do you know they didn't get their facts wrong? How do you know that when they say "stress" that they didn't include it because in the studies there was a .001% statistical anomaly that had to be included?

I'm not an expert. None of us are experts that I'm aware of. Wolfie is a dentist, I think. I'd refer to a dentist before ANY internet article. Internet articles are great jumping off points, but they are not FACT.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:33 am

I'll stop cutting and pasting professional's advice and documents off the internet.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:47 am

I'm not the boss of you. You have to be who you are and do what makes you feel good. I'm saying that I don't understand why you or anyone else would feel good about doing it or even want to. Or, how about, "Hey, I read this article that seems to be related. What do you think?" Make it a discussion instead of what feels like an attempt to discredit someone else? I want to talk to you. I want to have that conversation. I want to be able to discuss freely without the "GOOGLE POLICE" doing a "NOT-A-FACT" check on the topic. I want to discuss MY OPINIONS freely and have them be recognized without having to change from fun discussion to argument.

I guess it wouldn't bother me as much if I didn't think this place and this group of people were a little bit different. I've never spent more than a few days posting on other forums because it always turns into these kind of fights. Instead of friendly discussion and debate, it's verbal battle over whose version is right...regardless of the fact that most likely neither of "us" are 100% right. This place and the folks here just had a camaraderie that made me feel like everyone wanted to hear what everyone else had to say...until a few months ago.

To be honest, this whole debate has me VVFF fatigued. I keep saying I'm going to drop it but I do not.

KissMyAss · Post by **KissMyAss** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:20 pm

I didn't understand how arrogant it sounded.

erg2 · Post by **erg2** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:26 pm

I've posted in another thread...and it's something I don't discuss often...but I've been tested for IQ on different occasions in my life (with the most recent being just last year to help my sister-in-law with her Masters). I have always scored very high. I'm very capable of searching the Internet, finding articles, reading and comprehending them. But I'm not arrogant enough to assume that reading such an article gives me the understanding or knowledge of someone who studied for 8 years and practices professionally. And I'm certainly not gullible enough to believe that just because I read it on the Internet...no matter how genuine or official a website may appear...that the article is is fact and has provided me with true knowledge.

Post by **Genebaby** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:05 pm

erg2 wrote:I wanted true, honest discussion about Eric Carr's passing and how I was hospitalized for a blood clot myself and MY experience. Instead I got multiple people posting insisting I was wrong, that they knew for a fact that it was stress that caused Eric Carr to develop a blood clot which in turn caused his hemorrhage. Who cares how true or false or the fact that I was trying to debate the merit of that.

I wanted true, honest discussion on Gene & Paul attending Eric Carr's funeral, when I asked if they had indeed attended as I had heard. Multiple posts about how they didn't and I was wrong. VERY insistent that they knew Gene and Paul didn't attend. And then someone posted a firsthand account of the event and that Gene, Paul, Ace and Bruce all attended. Then it was corroborated by someone else AND a link to a news article.

erg2, I can only see that one person replied to your post about blood clots, AceAlive1, the person who originally posted they were caused by stress.

He replied from his own personal experience with them via his grandmother:

i know all about clots and the like....my grandmother died from (now) a perfectly treatable condition. that particular thing was brought on by stress.

KMA was the only other poster in stress-gate and she was replying directly to AceAlive1's post as well. Nothing further was written in that about the issue.

I also can't find much evidence of anyone getting heavy about the "Gene/Paul at Eric's funeral" issue in the same thread. I had read the book on Eric and remembered that they attended but were not the most popular people with the Carravello family at the time, I just didn't bother getting stuck into it.

Have a read, it doesn't seem that bad, or is there something I'm missing?

I really do think it was the problems with Brainsaw that are getting you down and they don't appear to be around anymore.

Prove It Or Shut Up ????